AAF_Collection Posted December 12, 2014 Share #1 Posted December 12, 2014 A few weeks ago with the help of a forum member (thanks Jean!) I picked this original portrait photo up on eBay. Unfortunately it is not named, but it is dated on the reverse, December 25, 1944 so perhaps a photo to send home to the folks at Christmas?. It clearly shows the 15th Air Force in Italy also used the blue backing behind the wing to denote combat crew, along with the 8th and 9th Air Forces. Matt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAF_Collection Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share #2 Posted December 12, 2014 A close up of the wing and ribbons, I also posted this in the medals section regarding the VFW ribbon. http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/226630-interesting-aaf-ribbon-combo/&do=findComment&comment=1798228 Matt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtA Posted December 12, 2014 Share #3 Posted December 12, 2014 Nice photo. It's also interesting to note he's wearing a VFW ribbon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAF_Collection Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share #4 Posted December 12, 2014 Thanks Kurt. I do speculate whether this might have been taken in the US after he'd returned having completed his tour, but prior to reassignment so he's still wearing his 15th AF patch on his left shoulder and his wing backing. Matt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3505 Posted December 12, 2014 Share #5 Posted December 12, 2014 Hi all,found this while reading through the April 1943 issue of Air Force.JeffCombat Flight PatchA rectangular patch of ultramarine blue cloth or other suitable material has been authorized as a background for the aviation badge to identify Air Forces personnel outside continental United States who are currently assigned to combat flight duty in a combat area. Qualified to wear the patch are personnel who hold effective aeronautical ratings or who are authorized to wear the aviation badge of air crew member. The patch is not a decoration or device designed for permanent wear on a uniform. When the individual ceases to serve on combat flight duty or when leaves the combat area or theater to which assigned, the patch will be removed.In April 1943 “Cross Country” department in Air Force: Official Journal of the U.S. Army Air Forces. Pg. 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAF_Collection Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share #6 Posted December 12, 2014 Hi Jeff, Thanks for posting, that's good information. Interesting that it indicates that ALL AAF combat personnel overseas could wear the backing, but I have yet to see an example of it being worn outside the ETO. I had previously posted the Eighth Air Force uniform regulations covering the blue backing, though I used photobucket so the images are no longer visible. I will re-post them later. Matt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy56 Posted December 12, 2014 Share #7 Posted December 12, 2014 Much, much interesting. Thank you. Regards, Dominique Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doinworkinvans Posted December 12, 2014 Share #8 Posted December 12, 2014 Oh no!!! Not again .... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuftStalg1 Posted December 12, 2014 Share #9 Posted December 12, 2014 As it designates "combat" you would think they would turn up more often then not. I guess the patch was not that popular with the flyers as I would have thought more flyers saw combat then did not see combat? They are about as rare as a fully "confirmed" indiviual kill for a gunner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustywings Posted December 12, 2014 Share #10 Posted December 12, 2014 The Aerial Gunner wing appears to be a British-made Gaunt-style badge. I wonder if he has an 8th or 9th Air Force patch on his right shoulder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BROBS Posted December 12, 2014 Share #11 Posted December 12, 2014 In my mind the guys who wore these were the guys who liked and flaunted "decorations" more than the average airman. Certainly not every member of a combat crew in the ETO wore them. just how I have felt about them... not sure if that's warranted or not. Or whether it was more certain units that sort of made it their "dress code"? Could this picture have been taken in the US after he was home? -Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAF_Collection Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share #12 Posted December 12, 2014 As it designates "combat" you would think they would turn up more often then not. I guess the patch was not that popular with the flyers as I would have thought more flyers saw combat then did not see combat? They are about as rare as a fully "confirmed" indiviual kill for a gunner! I think there is actually a pretty good explanation why we don't see more coats and jackets with the wing backings on them, and this is alluded to in the article from Air Force magazine which Jeff posted above, fliers were supposed to remove the backing once they left the theater of operations or were no longer actively flying combat. In my experience when a coat does still have the backing present it's because the wearer was overseas later in the war and returned still wearing the wing backing and was discharged shortly afterwards, this is why it's so much more common to find blue backed overseas made wings loose than still on a uniform. Matt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAF_Collection Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share #13 Posted December 12, 2014 The Aerial Gunner wing appears to be a British-made Gaunt-style badge. I wonder if he has an 8th or 9th Air Force patch on his right shoulder? Agree it's similar to a Brit made wing, and it could be that he'd been in the 8th or 9th before going to the 15th, but doesn't it also look similar to this pattern of US made wing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5thwingmarty Posted December 12, 2014 Share #14 Posted December 12, 2014 Does the photo have the studio name on the back? Also, were these blue patches supposed to be sewn onto the jackets and then the badge mounted on, or could the patches just be loose and held on by the badges? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuftStalg1 Posted December 12, 2014 Share #15 Posted December 12, 2014 , fliers were supposed to remove the backing once they left the theater of operations or were no longer actively flying combat. Ok, now I am surprised I don't see more uniforms with the pattern of this missing patch like I often see on the shoulders. I tend to think they simply were not put on and taken off other then by those types mentioned that liked to show off Seems pointless to me otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAF_Collection Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share #16 Posted December 12, 2014 Does the photo have the studio name on the back? Also, were these blue patches supposed to be sewn onto the jackets and then the badge mounted on, or could the patches just be loose and held on by the badges? Unfortunately it doesn't have the studio or photographers name. I have never seen any regulation which specifies how the backing should be attached, so yes it's entirely possible some men simply chose to pin their wings through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuftStalg1 Posted December 12, 2014 Share #17 Posted December 12, 2014 Does the photo have the studio name on the back? Also, were these blue patches supposed to be sewn onto the jackets and then the badge mounted on, or could the patches just be loose and held on by the badges? Now that may be the answer to my question as well. It would make sense that they simply pined the patch on with the wing. So no major sewing (Maybe just the corners to keep it flat?) and no trace of it when it was removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAF_Collection Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share #18 Posted December 12, 2014 Ok, now I am surprised I don't see more uniforms with the pattern of this missing patch like I often see on the shoulders. I tend to think they simply were not put on and taken off other then by those types mentioned that liked to show off Seems pointless to me otherwise. Good point, though it could be explained by the fact the wing backing was supposed to be removed prior to the end of the war, whereas when a uniform has had other patches removed it's often been done more recently. I have three 8th Air Force enlisted coats which show feint traces of the blue backing having been present. It would be useful to create a listing by unit of both photos of the blue backing being worn, and those on surviving uniforms which are considered legit, I feel the results will likely show examples from all 8th AF units, providing a wide enough cross section can be sampled. Matt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustywings Posted December 12, 2014 Share #19 Posted December 12, 2014 In another thread, Forum member 501stGeronimo mentioned he's currently writing a book about combat crew blue backings. Maybe he can help with some of these questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAF_Collection Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share #20 Posted December 12, 2014 Here are the uniform regulations for the Eighth Air Force, dated 23 November 1943. I have highlighted the section on the wing backing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAF_Collection Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share #21 Posted December 12, 2014 The following are Eighth Air Force groups whose personnel are known to have worn the wing backing, either through period photos or surviving documented uniforms. If anyone can add to the list please do. 94th BG. 96th BG. 351st BG. 381st BG. 445th BG. 447th BG. 448th BG. 457th BG. 458th BG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschwartz Posted December 12, 2014 Share #22 Posted December 12, 2014 One of the veterans featured on my website was a P-51 pilot and the image he sent me of his wings was attached to a blue background. I hadn't seen a fighter pilot have the blue background prior to that. Unfortunately I have lost touch with him over the years and I believe he's passed away. I don't have a picture of him in uniform wearing this background but you can see the image he sent me on the page dedicated to him here: http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/heroes/jackmccoskey/jackmccoskey.shtml There's also another veteran on my site who was a tail gunner in the 447th and probably the most humble person I've ever met. I can't see Jack wearing the blue background just to boast. That was not his style. Here's the page for Jack Keller: http://http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/heroes/jackkeller/jackkeller.shtml I know for sure that Jack passed away. It was a shame because he was a good friend and I miss him and his yearly email on the anniversary of D-Day where he recounted flying over the beaches on June 6th and 7th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ram957 Posted December 13, 2014 Share #23 Posted December 13, 2014 Great picture ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doinworkinvans Posted December 16, 2014 Share #24 Posted December 16, 2014 "Are you looking at my blue-back wing?!" "why yes, yes I am" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garandomatic Posted December 16, 2014 Share #25 Posted December 16, 2014 One of the veterans featured on my website was a P-51 pilot and the image he sent me of his wings was attached to a blue background. I hadn't seen a fighter pilot have the blue background prior to that. Unfortunately I have lost touch with him over the years and I believe he's passed away. I don't have a picture of him in uniform wearing this background but you can see the image he sent me on the page dedicated to him here: http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/heroes/jackmccoskey/jackmccoskey.shtml There's also another veteran on my site who was a tail gunner in the 447th and probably the most humble person I've ever met. I can't see Jack wearing the blue background just to boast. That was not his style. Here's the page for Jack Keller: http://http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/heroes/jackkeller/jackkeller.shtml I know for sure that Jack passed away. It was a shame because he was a good friend and I miss him and his yearly email on the anniversary of D-Day where he recounted flying over the beaches on June 6th and 7th. Have you read "Feather Merchant?" I have Al Cordisco's uniform, tail gunner of that plane, Ice Cold Katie, and Quittin' Time. Their pilot, Bill Greenwell, wrote an outstanding memoir of missions around that time frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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