Tudorp Posted December 8, 2014 Share #1 Posted December 8, 2014 I haven't had the opertunity to collect from the Civil War era. I generally collect from WWI through Korea mainly. Have some Vietnam era due to serving in the Air Force just slightly post Vietnam (peace time). But, I ran across this, and after some research discovered that it is an M1860 from a fairly rare maker. Henry Boker of Solingen Germany. From what I have found is that Henry was never an actual contractor, but some of his swords did enter into service for the North and the South and imported by his brother, founder of "Boker & Company" cutlery (Herman Boker) of New York. From what I have read, a few of Henry's Swords did serve, but never received any acceptance stamps due to him not being an "official" contractor, but a few did slip past and into service. Not much else is known of Henry Boker. At any rate, this sword is thought to be a Cavalry Officer's saber for the North, and from what I have read, pretty rare. Now, the bad news is it is in sorts a "relic" as far as condition. The Hilt is broken (the loop that comes from the hilt to the pommel is broken off and missing. The leather and cord wrap was rotted away leaving only the wood and double brass twined wrap. The pommel there, but loose. I did re-wrap the handle with new cord, and leather, and re-used the original brass wire wrap, and pretty much put it back together, but have not re-peened the pummel. The blade is in "ok" condition, but the very tip seems to be missing I think. I think maybe about a half inch or so (the very point). The scabbard is pretty much complete, but one of the rings is loose. The blade is marked "Henry Boker Solingen" . I would like to find any further information you guys might know about this sword and maker. I would also like what ya'lls opinion might be as far as a value estimate as a Civil War relic. I posted this in another area, but just realized the edged weapon area (newbie here, learning the forum) Thanks for any input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tudorp Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share #2 Posted December 8, 2014 Here is the mark on the blade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SARGE Posted December 8, 2014 Share #3 Posted December 8, 2014 Turdop, Your sword is basically a Model 1850 Staff & Field Officer sword. The bad news is that it appears to be a composite of bits and pieces. The scabbard has the proper M1850 S&F Officer fittings but the scabbard should be browned metal or leather and the fittings should be brass. This scabbard seems to have been silver painted or nickled at some time in the past. The blade appears to be a Boker Cavalry Enlisted Man's sword blade that has been shortened to fit the scabbard as it would normally be too long to fit. An original M1850 S&F blade would be shorter and etched according to regulations. Boker M1860 Enlisted Cavalry swords were generally private import/purchase and would not have US inspector markings. The guard is deformed and missing part of the knuckle bow. The guard is very poorly cast and seems to have also been nickled or painted at one time. The missing knuckle bow would have attached to the pommel in the slot. The grip would have originally been sharkskin that had wire wrap. I am afraid the value would only be the sum of the parts and all of these mis-matched parts are in pretty poor condition or broken. Sorry the news could not have been better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tudorp Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share #4 Posted December 8, 2014 Not really "bad" news, I know it's pretty much a mess, but looks pretty cool over the fireplace. It is what it is.. Thanks for the input. I do think it shows signs that it was painted maybe many years ago at some point, as there are reminises of silver paint here and there.. Maybe somewhere along the line someone tried to make it a "presentation" piece. It seems it was done many years ago, but there are a lot of years between now and post civil war, so it could have been done anywhere in between that.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warcollect1942 Posted December 8, 2014 Share #5 Posted December 8, 2014 The 1860 Boker blades were produced in Europe by Henery's brother. Then the blades were brought to America where Henery finished them. Only 55000 were produced. This makes them the rarest of the union swords. Roby would be the next rarest. Ames was the most produced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tudorp Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share #6 Posted December 8, 2014 That being said, and seeing that this one may very well be a miss matched sum of parts, would the blade itself hold any sort of value, maybe just as a part in itself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warcollect1942 Posted December 8, 2014 Share #7 Posted December 8, 2014 Henry Boker, Solingen Herman Boker imported swords from his brother , Henry {Heinrich} , in Germany. He held contracts for over 45,000 cavalry sabers,1646 artillery sabers, and 569 NCO swords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tudorp Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share #8 Posted December 8, 2014 Henry Boker, Solingen Herman Boker imported swords from his brother , Henry {Heinrich} , in Germany. He held contracts for over 45,000 cavalry sabers,1646 artillery sabers, and 569 NCO swords. This was also my understanding that Herman Boker (founder of Boker & Company New York) (Still exsists today) imported his brother's blades from Germany, and supplied both the north and the south. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warcollect1942 Posted December 8, 2014 Share #9 Posted December 8, 2014 I don't know about the south. He did have contracts with the Union. Records show that 55,000 were produced for the Union. These swords were used through the Indian wars. The south could have picked them up after battles. I read what you read but there is no proof of them being produced for the south. Who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tudorp Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share #10 Posted December 8, 2014 Well, I read that on the Internet, and you KNOW it's against federal law to post anything un-true on the internet, so if it's there, it is written, and so.. lol.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkfinder530 Posted December 8, 2014 Share #11 Posted December 8, 2014 This one has been on craigslist for a while now. personaly I would wait for a nicer one. Ive seen several nice ones for well under a thousand recently. scarce but ugly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tudorp Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share #12 Posted December 8, 2014 Yep, I put it on CL basically to see what sort of offers would come in. I am not really looking to sell it, but more to learn as much about it as I can. I've had a couple people inquire on it, but again, not that interested in selling it. One guy came in to inform me it was a fake, but you'll have those. I'm pretty confedent it is real, I just wish it was in better, and complete condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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