461st Bomb group (H) crude theater made DIs.

[aussie digger]

Hi All,

 

I have a set of very crudely made DIs for the 461st Bombardment Group (heavy). These insignia are made of a thin shield of what looks to be brass with what may be blue paint and what appears to be a paper bomb then lacquered. These have then had clutch back style posts soldered to the rear.

 

I was told these may be Italian made but these look rough compared to most of the Italian made DIs I have seen that generally have a far higher standard of workmanship.

 

I am wondering if anyone knows of where these were produced or any other info.

 

Thank you for looking.

 

Jason

[aussie digger]

Reverse.

[doyler]

Nice

 

SAW THEM UP CLOSE AND THEY ARE DEFINATELY HAND MADE.Looks

[ithaca37]

Very nice DUI's. When checking Massaro's AAC Air Corps DI book, these aren't listed. This has to be a difficult DI to say the least.

 

In Massaro's book, the 29th Bomb Gp has the same shield on their DI with a mottto added. I wonder if the 461 descended from the 29th?

[aussie digger]

Thanks guys. I havnt been able to find any reference to these either. I was just assuming these are 461st from looking online and the difference in the top of the shield design.

 

http://www.461st.org/

 

 

[aussie digger]

The only other insignia I have been able to find. Italian made bullion 461st bullion insignia on ebay.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-461ST-BOMB-GROUP-ITALIAN-MADE-DI-DUI-PIN-SET-LEFT-RIGHT-FACING-BULLION-/381064706239?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58b939f8bf

 

 

[manayunkman]

Could they be 370th BS from the 307th BG 13th AAF, known as the "Long Rangers" ?

 

 

[aussie digger]

That is also a possibility with these being hand made though I am still leaning towards 461st bomb group (H) being a pretty much exact match to their insignia.

[rlyoun3910]

Some units made their own crests, wings, &c. The dental detachment within a Heavy air division or the maintenance battalion could produce porcelain and did for such things. Not that you'd send your crests out to be assayed, but that would determine both the metallurgy and acrylic or porcelain of the crest. A wax impression is made, then muddy compound is pressed over the wax and the polymer is poured. Some with colors, often giving the item a 3-D look. Polymerization, causes the acrylic materials to bond, taking several hours to complete. After curing (even a cold cure), the stone "investment" is removed, the acrylic/porcelain is polished...voila. Machine shops had small foundries, or smithies, because some parts were casted down to even the most fragile brass, silver, or gold. As such units were static, there metal shops were up and running. During a lull, they could cast crests. British artists, jewelers were often busy making everything from time pieces, aeronautical instruments mechanical pens, to DUI/DI. Provided the metal was available. Same principles though. Check these photos out for both the 461st (15th AAF) and 29th BG (20th AAF). The left/right bouillon for the 461st are the best and probably most accurate that I've seen:

 

 

 

[aussie digger]

Thank you very much! I guess it makes it essentially impossible to ID where these DIs are made, not being able to find anything similar there must have been very few of them made.

[rlyoun3910]

I would not quite say that. Does the 461st have a reunion or alum mailing list? Takes some effort, but not a bad way to start a neat conversation.--Ray