ocsfollowme Posted November 4, 2014 Share #1 Posted November 4, 2014 As many of us have used reference books to help our collecting of patches, sometimes, patches end up not being what originally thought. These can run into two possible categories: (1) A real period patch and has now been correctly ID'd as something else from photos, groupings, or being found on a legit untouched uniform, or (2) the patch was a created patch, intended to deceive people into spending lots of money on a bogus patch. These are examples of disproved patches that now have correct ID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12thengr Posted November 4, 2014 Share #2 Posted November 4, 2014 Um, nice quilts would love to see some close-ups. Wasn't this about disproved patches and examples thereof? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocsfollowme Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share #3 Posted November 4, 2014 1. Red airborne command patch. This was thought to have been a 555th Airborne patch, but it turned out that these were made in the 1980s. These are well made fakes, do not glow, and are not attributed to any WW2 units or units thereafter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocsfollowme Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share #4 Posted November 4, 2014 2. Red 2nd Corps patch...turns out that it was from vintage bed sheets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocsfollowme Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share #5 Posted November 4, 2014 3. I speak English patch. Thought that it was a translator/correspondent patch. Turns out it is from a WW2 period hotel where US Soldiers frequented show which hotel personnel could speak English. Link 1 Link 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocsfollowme Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share #6 Posted November 4, 2014 4. 442nd Anti-Tank Battalion, turned out to be from the Four Roses Whiskey company. Another link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Camouflage Pattern I Posted November 4, 2014 Share #7 Posted November 4, 2014 This is very cool, I look forward to more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocsfollowme Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share #8 Posted November 4, 2014 5. We used to think that this was a Japanese War Trials patch, is actually a Manila War trials patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocsfollowme Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share #9 Posted November 4, 2014 Please add others that I have forgotten. I know there is the Philippine patch that was found out to be a security detail for the President that was worn well into the 1960s that ASMIC broke the story. If moderators could clean this up or find a better way to organize it, please make the necessary changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocsfollowme Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share #10 Posted November 4, 2014 6. Can someone explain this one? This is one that was disproved in ASMIC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintageproductions Posted November 4, 2014 Share #11 Posted November 4, 2014 The above was supposed to be a 1st style Ryukus Command but was actually the Philippine Presidential Body Guards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchcollector Posted November 5, 2014 Share #12 Posted November 5, 2014 5. We used to think that this was a Japanese War Trials patch, is actually a Manila War trials patch. Not sure why this patch was included with these "bogus" patches,as this design is authentic and was used by the Military. I think that the confusion regarding this patch all boils down to semantics. The patch was used by unit(s) that participated in the Tribunals for War Crimes committed by the Japanese that were held in the P.I. Quite a mouthful. It's known by many as the "Japanese War Crimes" patch and some interpret that to mean War Crime Trials being held in Japan,but I believe that the "Japanese" means the people(Troops),and not the place. In other words it means the War Crimes Trials against Japanese soldiers,not that it was being held in Japan. Hope that makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyDevil117 Posted November 5, 2014 Share #13 Posted November 5, 2014 Nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STONEY Posted November 5, 2014 Share #14 Posted November 5, 2014 1. Red airborne command patch. This was thought to have been a 555th Airborne patch, but it turned out that these were made in the 1980s. These are well made fakes, do not glow, and are not attributed to any WW2 units or units thereafter. STEVE, THATS CRAZY. DON'T KNOW IF YOU SAW IT OR NOT, BUT eBay HAD ONE LISTED THE OTHER DAY AND HAD A BID OF OVER $230. SOMEONE GOT TAKEN! REGARDS, STONEY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocsfollowme Posted November 5, 2014 Author Share #15 Posted November 5, 2014 Not sure why this patch was included with these "bogus" patches,as this design is authentic and was used by the Military. I think that the confusion regarding this patch all boils down to semantics. The patch was used by unit(s) that participated in the Tribunals for War Crimes committed by the Japanese that were held in the P.I. Quite a mouthful. It's known by many as the "Japanese War Crimes" patch and some interpret that to mean War Crime Trials being held in Japan,but I believe that the "Japanese" means the people(Troops),and not the place. In other words it means the War Crimes Trials against Japanese soldiers,not that it was being held in Japan. Hope that makes sense. It is disproved, not bogus. Disproved of the name of the mission/patch name but the ultimate mission was the same. It is still a rare, sought after, and expensive patch (depending on variations too). I agree it is semantics. The goal of this thread is to clear up the names of patches that have been printed since the 1970/80s and/or validate patches that have popped up over the years. The issue for me is when I first started collecting...I saw this patch in Washingtons Book and thought, "Gosh, I want this Japanese War Trials patch!" I know ASMIC did a great pub on this patch, and it pays to be apart of ASMIC, but my way forward for the patch collecting hobby is to acknowledge the fakes or mistakes of the past (whether you are a member of ASMIC or this forum). OK, example. My check is in the mail for the new Airborne book by the Keller's. For some reason I feel that this is going to be the patch bible for the next 20 years so on the last page, it should have the red tabbed airborne command patch and list it is a fake. Otherwise, people are going to continue getting hosed. I got it, new things pop up all of the time...but when we know something is wrong it needs to be stated so that it is killed so it doesnt pop up again. I think it would be great if the mods would take over this thread. clean it up periodically. Maybe do links better to past discussions. (I know that I am a novice, but I was fired up yesterday when someone paid $427 for that red tabed airborne command patch from a major dealer. I will be the first to state, even though I have been collecting for 9 years, on a scale of 1 (just got on ebay) to 10 (Scotty) I am maybe a 3, but learning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtepak6 Posted November 5, 2014 Share #16 Posted November 5, 2014 Steve - great thread! Sure have enjoyed this topic. The bedsheet patch was a hoot!!! Dale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchcollector Posted November 5, 2014 Share #17 Posted November 5, 2014 It is disproved, not bogus. Disproved of the name of the mission/patch name but the ultimate mission was the same. It is still a rare, sought after, and expensive patch (depending on variations too). I agree it is semantics. The goal of this thread is to clear up the names of patches that have been printed since the 1970/80s and/or validate patches that have popped up over the years. The issue for me is when I first started collecting...I saw this patch in Washingtons Book and thought, "Gosh, I want this Japanese War Trials patch!" I know ASMIC did a great pub on this patch, and it pays to be apart of ASMIC, but my way forward for the patch collecting hobby is to acknowledge the fakes or mistakes of the past (whether you are a member of ASMIC or this forum). OK, example. My check is in the mail for the new Airborne book by the Keller's. For some reason I feel that this is going to be the patch bible for the next 20 years so on the last page, it should have the red tabbed airborne command patch and list it is a fake. Otherwise, people are going to continue getting hosed. I got it, new things pop up all of the time...but when we know something is wrong it needs to be stated so that it is killed so it doesnt pop up again. I think it would be great if the mods would take over this thread. clean it up periodically. Maybe do links better to past discussions. (I know that I am a novice, but I was fired up yesterday when someone paid $427 for that red tabed airborne command patch from a major dealer. I will be the first to state, even though I have been collecting for 9 years, on a scale of 1 (just got on ebay) to 10 (Scotty) I am maybe a 3, but learning. After reading this post I better understand what you are trying to achieve.Thanks for clearing that up for me.I agree,even the "best" and most well known collectors and/or organizations can and do make errors.It is part of our collective human nature that we are all,at times,fallible.Cases in point.Bandos' site still shows the Red Airborne Command patch as being just a "manufacturers" variant.Then there's the famous(Or infamous) 2nd Corps "curtain" variant.There's nothing wrong with making mistakes,as long as we try to "fix" things once we have become aware of our errors. Books that illustrate collections(in "hard copy" form) can be problematic when it comes to updating errors.Fixing these can get expensive,as they must be updated and reprinted.That's why the digital copies are so nice.They can be updated and distributed for much less than their paper cousins.Posting known errors on the "big" collectors forum sites such as this one is a good idea. Thanks for starting this helpful thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Camouflage Pattern I Posted November 5, 2014 Share #18 Posted November 5, 2014 After reading this post I better understand what you are trying to achieve.Thanks for clearing that up for me.I agree,even the "best" and most well known collectors and/or organizations can and do make errors.It is part of our collective human nature that we are all,at times,fallible.Cases in point.Bandos' site still shows the Red Airborne Command patch as being just a "manufacturers" variant.Then there's the famous(Or infamous) 2nd Corps "curtain" variant.There's nothing wrong with making mistakes,as long as we try to "fix" things once we have become aware of our errors. Books that illustrate collections(in "hard copy" form) can be problematic when it comes to updating errors.Fixing these can get expensive,as they must be updated and reprinted.That's why the digital copies are so nice.They can be updated and distributed for much less than their paper cousins.Posting known errors on the "big" collectors forum sites such as this one is a good idea. Thanks for starting this helpful thread! I think this sums up the way I feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PATCHRAT Posted November 7, 2014 Share #19 Posted November 7, 2014 Here is one I remember being sold as authentic, but it is not and I believe made by the same dealer as the RED tabbed airborne command. the one sold on E bay a while back for over $300. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
militbuff Posted November 7, 2014 Share #20 Posted November 7, 2014 Here is one I remember being sold as authentic, but it is not and I believe made by the same dealer as the RED tabbed airborne command. the one sold on E bay a while back for over $300. I recall seeing this sell on ebay a few years back. If I remember correctly, the dealer said it was Belgian made. Do you have a pic of the back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocsfollowme Posted November 7, 2014 Author Share #21 Posted November 7, 2014 Here is one I remember being sold as authentic, but it is not and I believe made by the same dealer as the RED tabbed airborne command. the one sold on E bay a while back for over $300. Thanks for posting this PATCHRAT! I remember seeing this exact one! And in fact, I saved the same photo for my records. However, I do not have a photo of the back...so I am thinking that the seller did not post it. Here is the only OD border photo that I have in my extensive records. My question to the patch gurus, does a real 86th OD border actually exist? Is the one that I posted real? Thanks for helping out with this everyone! My goal is to get information out there so that we can police up the fakes and correct the miss-ID's patches. And create some great discussion!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtA Posted November 7, 2014 Share #22 Posted November 7, 2014 Steve- The 86th you posted is a fake. Can't say I've seen what I would consider to be an original. Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocsfollowme Posted November 7, 2014 Author Share #23 Posted November 7, 2014 So my questions Kurt, is that this looks similar to the construction of the 70th OD border patch. Again, I have never touched an 86th OD border patch. Are there other known fakes that the NJ bandit put out there? Can any of our other patch guru's weigh in on the 86th? Anyone have one that looks different than this? Thanks for the conversation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocsfollowme Posted November 7, 2014 Author Share #24 Posted November 7, 2014 1. The Airborne Command patch. I wanted to clean this up a bit. The only "real airborne command patch" is the one with the black tab. Period. Two known fakes are out there. These are what are real: The two fakes are the ones that have a red tab and a blue tab. Both tabs are attached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocsfollowme Posted November 7, 2014 Author Share #25 Posted November 7, 2014 1. This is the blue fake. One popped up on eBay during the summer of 2014. Attached tab. Here is the discussion on this patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now