WW1 pre-DUI overseas cap numerical regimental pin

[sgtpeter]

I recently picked up a photo of a soldier, Pvt Olson, who was reportedly killed in action in 1918. I found him listed in the Washington State honor rolls as having enlisted with the 161st Infantry. Since the DUI for the 161st wasn't adopted until 1926, did units issue or wear other types of cap badges to identify their unit? The photo for Pvt Olson clearly shows a brass "161" emblem on his overseas cap but I wasn't aware of any numerical regimental pin worn by soldiers.

 

What's more interesting is that the 161st shipped to France as a component of the 41st Division and was designated as a training and replacement unit. Pvt Olson apparantly ended up as a replacement as his records indicate he was killed while serving with Co H, 9th Infantry.

 

Was the numbers a common practice for units before the DUIs were adopted?

 

Thanks,

Peter

[world war I nerd]

Brass regimental numerals were an unauthorized insignia that was worn by certain AEF outfits that served overseas during WW I.

 

The brass regimental numbers were part of the French Piolu's uniform, and were worn on the Bonnet de Police - the same type of cap that the Americans called an Overseas Cap.

 

After the Overseas Cap was adopted as an article of equipment for the AEF in January of 1918, many Doughboys were issued or otherwise procured French style caps which had no provision for attaching a screw-back U.S. collar disc, - the only authorized insignia for the enlisted men's Overseas Cap.

 

Because the French style brass numerals were attached to the caps by means of a pin and were easily obtainable, they were worn instead. Depending on the whims of the organization's commanding officer, the French made insignia was either tolerated or it was not. Hence, they show up from time to time in period photos and on surviving Overseas Caps.

 

From left to right: 104th Infantry Regiment, 26th Division; 308th Supply Train, 78th Division; 815th Pioneer Infantry Regiment; and 107th Infantry Regiment, 27th Division.

 

I hope this helps...

[everforward]

Adding to the "whims" of various units and regulations, I have an Overseas Cap that is I.D'd to a soldier from the 29th Division HQ Troop with embroidered crossed sabres and a chain-loop stitch 29th Division emblem......both embroidered into the side of the cap, not applied.

[world war I nerd]

Hi everforward,

 

Any chance of posting a photo of the 29th Div. overseas cap that you mentioned?

[everforward]

Yes, I will give it a try...I haven't got the hang of the new way of posting photos yet but I'll do my best to get one here...

[everforward]

It was a 'quick pic' take this morning but it shows the side with the embroidery. I have never seen another one like this. The blue in the 29th emblem is much bluer on the inside of the flap since it's not exposed to light.

 

This cap is ID'd to a William E. Smith, 29th Div. Headquarters Troop.

[world war I nerd]

Nice cap ... thanks for posting.

[sgtpeter]

Hi everforward - thanks for posting the pictures of that cap. That is a nice custom piece.

 

world war 1 nerd - thanks for the information, that helps cement the photo and confirming what I thought. I need to post a copy of the pic here for reference. Is the cap worn by the soldier on the left the French bonnet?

 

And now I have something more to look for ... anybody have an extra 161 brass hat pin?

 

Was at a antique store on Monday and found the same photo in a different frame. The vendor wanted a lot of money for a photo that wasn't named or marked in any way. When I got home and compared the photo that I have to the one I saw on Monday, it is the same person. Now just need to get back there and grab that photo as well.

 

Peter

[world war I nerd]

Hi Peter,

 

Yes, the overseas cap on the left with the high crown and rounded front is a French style overseas cap.

[sgtpeter]

Thanks, that's the same style that Pvt Olson is wearing. Are those caps hard to come by?

 

Peter

[world war I nerd]

The French style overseas caps are not as common as the US style, but they are common enough. You shouldn't have too much trouble tracking one down.

[scmcgeorge]

Dear all: Since 41st was the first depot Division formed it provided replacements to the early arrival AEF divisions. Lots of 41st/ 1st Depot Divison guys wound up in 1st, 2nd, and 32nd Divisions. The Artillery regiments remained intact, but formed the 66th FA Brigade. The 116th Engineers also remained untouched. Most nearly everyone else got re-assigned as a replacement somewhere in the AEF or formed the cadre of 1st Depot Division. Hope this helps Steve McG