UK Collection Blown Up By Authorities

[Charlie Flick]

A UK collector has, according to an article in the Telegraph, had his entire gun, ordnance and militaria collection destroyed by authorities. See the link:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11101639/WW1-machine-gun-found-in-mans-garage.html

 

Seems a bit extreme.

 

Regards,

Charlie

 

[kies99]

I don't read in the article where it says his entire militaria collection was destroyed. It says all the artifact, but I'll bet it was only the ordnance.

 

Also, he's digging around where there is the potential for live munitions. The police don't have the time or manpower to inspect each individual piece so out of an abundance of caution they collected it all and blew it up.

 

Looking at the picture and reading the story, I think the police may have done the right thing in this case.

[capa]

It didn't specifically state they blew up the uniforms and other non-ordinance items, but that would be an important point to have clarified. Per the dug up ordinance, his friend states, “I go out with Alan all the time, and we’re almost always in a site where we’ve got permission.” There you have it. These guys are admittedly trespassing and breaking the law.

Is he trained in ordinance disposal? If not, then no one in their right mind would want to have that in the same house as their family.

 

Amateur hour with potentially deadly consequences.

[Charlie Flick]

The article states in one of the captions "Alan Tissington's garage was packed with artillery, firearms, ammunition and uniforms from both world wars. His entire collection was removed and destroyed in a controlled explosion."

 

I hope it was only the illegal stuff. It is indeed very foolish for an amateur to be handling dug up and unexploded ordnance.

 

Charlie

[scottiques]

"His entire collection was removed and destroyed in a controlled explosion."

 

Seems a bit excessive to me. Looks like the authorities were trying to punish him without benefit of a trial!

 

Scott

[cutiger83]

That is an amazing collection. It is a shame if they blew it all up instead of trying to save some of the collection. The machine gun is amazing. I sure hope they only blew up the ordnance and not the guns.

 

....Kat

[Backtheattack]

Think they destroyed the guns and ammo. England has one of the strongest gun laws in Europe, followed by Germany. But here in Germany they will have confiscated guns and ammo, send to a specialist squad of police for investigation, and then destroyed the working ammo or ammo with rest of powder. Talking about German laws a collector may have great problems with ammo like this man had. For instance, some fuzes are forbidden, a hole in a case is not written in law but most authorities want one as a sign of a demilled round. Heard often from confiscated collections here.

[cutiger83]

But here in Germany they will have confiscated guns and ammo, send to a specialist squad of police for investigation, and then destroyed the working ammo or ammo with rest of powder.

 

I can understand this. Definitely let a specialist look at the guns and destroy the ammo but don't blow up such an historical gun.

 

...Kat

 

[ocsfollowme]

Honestly, if I owned any historical ordnance or firearms, I would not post photos of them on the internet. You wonder what the tip off was to the authorities.

 

In any event, hunting for treasures is fun...but old ordnance can sure be dangerous. All it takes is one going off and then the police are going to side with safety from now on.

[5thwingmarty]

In the book "Shadow Divers", there is an account about one of the divers having part of his collection destroyed when an item he recovered from a ship exploded in his garage. I don't even think it was an ordnance object that blew up.

[suwanneetrader]

If they destroyed the uniforms, helmets and the like, then it could someday also happen here. In the US the Non-Militaria people seem to follow what is,in their opinion, the correct way of those in England. Even in the UK I would think he would have his day in Court and the legal items would have been returned. Richard

[BROBS]

Honestly, if I owned any historical ordnance or firearms, I would not post photos of them on the internet. You wonder what the tip off was to the authorities.

 

In any event, hunting for treasures is fun...but old ordnance can sure be dangerous. All it takes is one going off and then the police are going to side with safety from now on.

I think last year they had a supposedly "inert" ordnance detonate at a big show..

so I wonder if they are cracking down on it there?

 

-Brian

[TheGrayGhost]

I am sure the idea that the entire collection was destroying is just poor wording on the part of the journalist. There is no reason to blow up a uniforms and he certainly didn't dig those up in a field. I would bet it is just the ordnance items, and is well within the police's rights and duties for public safety.

 

As much as I feel it is a shame to lose the history, I also don't want my neighbor to have a garage full of potentially live and volatile explosives he dug up in a field. You simply don't know if the items were demilled, and if there were, whether it was done properly.

[cutiger83]

In the US the Non-Militaria people seem to follow what is,in their opinion, the correct way of those in England.

 

Not sure what you are talking about but I don't see this at all here in the US.

 

...Kat

[capa]

I do think there is some sloppy reporting in this. It states he is 46 years old, been collecting for more than 40 years, which would make him between 5-6 years old when he started, then his wife says he has been collecting since he was ten. Not egregious errors but enough to make it suspect when you add them in with the nebulous language about what exactly the authorities blew up.

There is no contact info for the writer on the Telegraph's page.

[suwanneetrader]

Not sure what you are talking about but I don't see this at all here in the US.

 

...Kat

One example (of many) where hunters and collectors did not "see" it ever happening to them in modern times is Australia of which there was a published photo of a pile of guns bigger than a pickup being crushed for the smelter with vintage Winchester lever actions and even some high grade Double Barrels showing. Australians had many collectable guns from their early cattle and sheep range days (like the American early West). Also before a lot of Forum members time we had the Nazi German Government that did a lot without a trial including confiscating weapons and jailing those who had them. The last time the US Police confiscated weapons without due process, (That I'm aware of ) was in New Orleans during Katrina. So maybe those who don't think it can happen might want to be more vigilant. Remember I'm not talking about dangerous and/or illegal ordinance or non-registered automatic arms. A Government of the people can not legally just take everything (In this case helmets, uniforms and the like) (IF news story is correct)and destroy it because a few things are illegal Even in Drug Raids when vehicles and other personal property is forfeited they are auctioned not destroyed. Richard

[cutiger83]

One example (of many)

 

 

Just because these things happened in Australia, the UK, and (Germany in WWII) does not mean that we here in the US will automatically follow them. If you look at what happened in New Orleans and the aftermath, you will see that legislation was changed.

 

Louisiana legislator, Steve Scalise introduced Louisiana House Bill 760, which would prohibit confiscation of firearms in a state of emergency, unless the seizure is pursuant to the investigation of a crime, or if the seizure is necessary to prevent immediate harm to the officer or another individual. On June 8, 2006, HB 760 was signed into law. 21 other states joined Louisiana in enacting similar laws. A federal law prohibiting seizure of lawfully held firearms during an emergency, the Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act of 2006, passed in the House with a vote of 322 to 99, and in the Senate by 84-16. The bill was signed into law by President Bush on October 9, 2006.

[US Military Guy]

It looks like I am in disagreement with some of the other posters in this topic - so, I will just leave it at that.

 

I will note that I counted at least 18 fuzed projectiles in the photo. I would find it extremely difficult to believe that the "...the army simply buried a lot of these weapons in the ground." with the fuzes in place.

 

Perhaps this individual did actually know what he was doing with this ordnance?

[Dave]

Okay folks...it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out there are some "explosive" (pardon the pun) political directions this thread can go down.

 

Please keep it on topic without venturing into the realm of politics, particularly conspiracy-type theories.

 

Thanks

Dave

[AAF_Collection]

Let me put another angle on this, from someone living in the UK.

 

Under British law it is a criminal offence to own certain items of ordnance and ammunition without permit if the objects in question have not been correctly and legally rendered inert, and the fact they are "relics" doesn't count (plenty of folks in Europe are still killed or injured every year by 70 to 100 year old ordnance).

 

You cannot legally enter another persons property in the UK to search for relics, doing so is likely to be considered trespass at the least, or theft if you remove any items.

 

Some areas are legally protected as historic sites, the news report makes reference to detecting on English Heritage property, so in a US context this is akin to a protected area in a national park.

 

According to the British press there have been two other raids recently, one on the home of a "collector" who had, it is claimed, been involved in digging for relics in europe, including unearthing the remains of German soldiers.

 

I don't think for one moment this is the start of a campaign to victimise collectors, only those who believe they can flout the law.