Legitimus and Collins #18 Machete "V44" Green horn Handle

[jbassmaster18]

Found this recently. Came out of the massive collection (that finally ended!!) WW2 Legitmus and Collins #18 machete or sometime called the "V44" First time seeing the green handled version in person. It is not numbered to the USMC though. The leather sheath is really nice and has had a field modification to hold the knife. What do you guys think???

 

 

 

[jbassmaster18]

 

[jbassmaster18]

 

 

[jbassmaster18]

[dustin]

It should Never be called a V-44....join the Change the Nomenclature Foundation today! and stop spreading misinformation.

 

The connection to the USMC is only a minimal fraction of this blades history, a footnote really. It's principle legacy lies within the Army Air Corp or Army Air Force depending on the era you are referencing. The tang stamp you have is of the early branding and recognized as the type procured by the Army Air Corp in the latter half of the 1930's however it is not the #18 the AAC procured for emergency kits. The #18 procured by the AAC for emergency kits in the 1930's were modified, very distinguishable from the one you posted. It is my belief these/yours are for commercial sales during that era. Following the declaration of war in December 1941 emergency procurements were made to include the procurements of 9 inch machetes the Collins #18 one manufacture. This Collins and the Hammer brand tang stamp would have been acquired by the AAF at this time to fill emergency requisitions to supply new contracts of the old type emergency parachute kits and to supplement other kits until the 10 inch folding machete became available.

Your Collins is in very good shape and a nice clean sheath, I really like the addition of the securing tab. These 9 inch machetes were either issued/distributed to personnel or the more popular statement they were pilfered. That's a fine example

[dustin]

After thinking about this for a moment I thought it might be a good idea to explain or defend my remarks. For the more knowledgeable members on this subject you will find that I am going against the grain of common knowledge in regards to the #18 Collins machete. Common knowledge will tell you the machete posted here is of the type procured by the AAC starting in 1934 with what is referenced as the Sword Stamp. what I proclaimed in the last post was contrary to common belief.... so who am I to go against D.E. Henry and Frank Traska?! In short I have to stand by my documentation and what it tells me which is documentation from the AAF Material Command dating from 1934-1945 discussing the development of emergency kits. In this documentation are correspondences between Collins and the Material Command along with purchasing receipts. In all cases discussing the details of #18 also listed in the receipts the machete procured by the AAC in the 1930's was modified.

In a Knife World article dated Jan. 1997 Frank Traska states "In 1934 the Army Air Corps with Collins developed the Model No.18." This is true! Collins supplied examples with their pattern No.216 green horned handle on the No.18 to the AAC as seen on the machete pictured here, however the AAC did not procure this pattern according to my records. The No.18 the AAC did purchase were this submitted pattern but modified and continued to procure them in limited quantities through the remainder of the 1930's then the trail stops until war was declared. This why I believe the No.18 with sword stamp and No.216 handle is a commercially supplied pattern. Collins was delivering the "modified" type to the AAC and distributing the No.18 with their pattern No.216 green horned handle for commercial sales.

Why the No.216 handle on WWII purchases? Like many things purchases by the US Government were of commercial items. By the end of 1942 the earlier pattern emergency parachute kit that included the 9 inch machete were both going to be superseded and for the 9 inch machete the folding 10 inch folding type was going to replace it. Due to the necessities and requirements needed to wage war the Material Command made "emergency" procurements of the old type emergency kits there fore requiring 9 inch machetes for lack of a better option as the 10 inch folding type was only on the drawing board at this time. To supplement the requests commercial industries, Collins and outfitters, supplied the AAF with already available commercial products, this is why we see the No.18 both with sword and crown hammer stamps with the No.216 handles there were no further requirements on manufacturers for the "modified" model adjustments to the drawings were made to the manufacture of the kits which was the more cost effective measure.

I refrained on the specifics of the "modified" No.18 ...well for selfish reasons. I usually have no issue with sharing information but in this case I am keeping this information in a tight circle for now until I find one! = less people aware and looking . If you have to know now the information is housed at the national archives in DC.

[bbmilitaria]

Beautiful example of a very desirable knife. Wish I had mine back. Congratulations on a great find!

[wavrunrx]

any idea what his knife with the greenhorn handle and the scabbard (no 13) would be worth ?

ive got one just like this.

[thorin6]

I saw a very nice one at a Militaria show this weekend, and he was asking $950 for it; it didn't sell. I've seen them on ebay for $450 to $650 asking price but they hang around awhile. The composite handle ones seem to sell from $200 to $350 depending on condition, particularly of the scabbard. My best guess, without any connection to a unit or person, would be around the $350-450 mark in the conditon shown; this is in the Southeast. They might go higher in other parts of the US.

[wavrunrx]

I saw a very nice one at a Militaria show this weekend, and he was asking $950 for it; it didn't sell. I've seen them on ebay for $450 to $650 asking price but they hang around awhile. The composite handle ones seem to sell from $200 to $350 depending on condition, particularly of the scabbard. My best guess, without any connection to a unit or person, would be around the $350-450 mark in the conditon shown; this is in the Southeast. They might go higher in other parts of the US.

 

thanks for that quick reply !

the handle on mine it splintering and flaking;

what is the material used ? ive yet to see one with a black handle flake like this (mine)

 

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/OTAwWDE2MDA=/z/DMAAAOSwd4tUFftS/$_57.JPG?rt=nc

 

im guessing i could expect somewhere in the high $200's for mine. (yes ive got it for sale on ebay now)

thanks again.

[Tltt]

 

thanks for that quick reply !

the handle on mine it splintering and flaking;

what is the material used ? ive yet to see one with a black handle flake like this (mine)

 

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/OTAwWDE2MDA=/z/DMAAAOSwd4tUFftS/$_57.JPG?rt=nc

 

im guessing i could expect somewhere in the high $200's for mine. (yes ive got it for sale on ebay now)

thanks again.

 

 

It's steam pressed cattle horn. The colors can range from yellowish green - black. Usually when the handles go bad naturally it's either insect(beetle) damage or delamination of horn that then causes swelling at the ends and/or stress cracking at the rivets.

[Frank Trzaska]

Super Rare early Large Sword Stamp on this one. This stamp was only used on earlier military items so Ed Henry supposed they pulled out the old military stamp to use it for a military contract piece. His guess is just as good as any I would suppose.

 

So Dustin my friend, you say I am wrong but hold short on stating why I am wrong, help me out... I am always happy to be PROVEN wrong, in fact I urge it you have the facts to do so. You can't just let me hang here.Spill the beans.

 

All the best

Frank Trzaska

[dustin]

.

In a Knife World article dated Jan. 1997 Frank Traska states "In 1934 the Army Air Corps with Collins developed the Model No.18." This is true!

 

Frank I didn't say you were wrong, in other words I was saying there is more to the story. What I wrote up is what has been presented to me by the documentation from the Material Command, this is how I viewed it as if I knew absolutely nothing else uninfluenced by outside sources nothing more nothing less. I knew I was playing with fire when I posted it however I do have the facts to back it up.