Heavey Barrel Percussion Target Rifle w/ Burnside Lock

[Mr. Scratch]

What can you guys say about this monster; a heavy barreled percussion target rifle. About .45, weighs just a touch over 20 lb. The top barrel flat is drilled for a long Malcolm scope at the very front and back. Barrel is marked "REMINGTON" and "AW FOSTER". It has a Burnside Rifle Co. lockplate, and without taking it apart I suspect the whole lock is a Burnside carbine lock, modified for a set trigger. The lock appears to be original to the gun. It used to have a false muzzle (4 holes drilled in the crown), but that's long gone. Barrel is held to the rear half by a pin, so it can be taken down and carried a bit easier.

I've never seen a target rifle with a military lock, and never seen a Burnside-marked rifle that wasn't a Burnside or Spencer Carbine.

Thoughts? Opinions? Random guesses?

[Mr. Scratch]

Lockplate

[Mitch]

That is a great rifle. I'm surprised with that size of barrel that it has provisions for a ramrod. These were generally bench rest rifles. It is not odd to see Remington on the barrel . They were a big supplier of barrel blanks to gunsmiths in the late 1800's and there barrels were marked with Remington. I have see another Foster rifle very similar to this.It did not have a Burnside lock on it. I don't recall the name but it was fairly generic. I believe Foster to be a smaller gunsmith of the late 1800's using whatever materials available.I would say he made the stock and trigger guard and butt plate and bought the barrel and lock and married them all together modifying the lock for set triggers. I would love to shoot it and would not have a problem doing that.

Regards, Mitch

[Mr. Scratch]

They were a big supplier of barrel blanks to gunsmiths in the late 1800's and there barrels were marked with Remington.

This brings up an interesting possibility. According to my research, Remington produced barrels and barrel blanks for most of the 19th Century (beginning in 1816). Would it be possible to date their barrels by the stamp itself? I've looked at some Remington stamps via Google Images, but all I've found of the late 1800s stamps are fairly elaborate, with full company names, manufacture locations, patent numbers, etc. Nothing that just says "REMINGTON". Anyone have access to a history of old pre-code Remington stamps?

 

[Mitch]

I would think that any complete Remington made gun would have Company name, manufacture locations, patent numbers, etc on the barrel. Any barrel blank made to sell would not have all that on there. They would not want many ties to the company location on a gun not manufactured by them. Using a civil war lock and the company going bankrupt in the mid 1880's for awhile , I would date it from 1865 to 1885. Just my wag.

Mitch

[Mr. Scratch]

I've been doing some serious sleuthing on this the past few weeks.

On the barrel production dating, I've found this:

"In 1837, Eliphalet Remington’s son Philo came of age and entered his father’s business--which became E. Remington & Son. In 1839, son Samuel entered the business--which now became E. Remington & Sons---a name that continued to be used until 1888, despite the death of the founder in 1861.[...] Eliphalet Remington stamped his rifle barrels REMINGTON near the breech. Remington markings in straight line and half-moon shape are known, but the exact significance of the form is not known. It is thought that the curved form is the earlier of the two markings. Flintlock and percussion barrels have been found with Remington’s stamping underneath, on one of the bottom flats, hidden from view when the stock is fitted. This was the individual choice of a gunsmith to hide the barrel maker’s name, as he assembled the barrel into his finished gun. If a name is exposed, it is customarily that of the gunsmith who made the rifle." -- Roy Marcot's book "REMINGTON- America's Oldest Gunmaker"

Also, the breech-stamp is mentioned here:

http://herkimer.nygenweb.net/ilion/RemingtonStory2.html

If my reading of this is correct, it would indicate a simple, straight-line "REMINGTON" stamp near the breach (without the later mention of his sons, which at least in some cases would be marked "P. & S. REMINGTON"), would be the work done under Eliphalet, thus dating it to 1861 at the latest, but likely earlier.

 

AND... I've IDed the gunmaker. In the archives of Bowling Green State University I found a listing for a 1970 recording of "Conversation with Orlo Foster, grandson of A. W. Foster (Whitey) [sic] early gunmaker of Columbia, Williams County, Ohio", and sent off for a copy. In spite of it being the worst interview ever (the interviewer, who is mostly there to hear the sound of his own voice, is fixed on asking metalugical questions that could be answered in any basic blacksmithing text...a wasted opportunity IMO), when the 90ish yo Orlo manages to get a word in edgewise he states his grandfather "Whiting" made only precision heavy-barreled target rifles (capable of shooting off a duck's head from across the lake) built with outsourced locks, that he went into business after the demise of the flintlock in Columbia OH, and that he stamped his barrels with "AW FOSTER" at the midway point on the top flat of the barrel. The Civil War did come up in the conversation, but unfortunately the interviewer wasted his time asking poor Orlo questions related to flintlocks and metallic cartridge rifles, (though the interviewer seems confused a bit by the difference between flintlocks and percussion) which Orlo repeatedly told him his grandfather didn't work with, either at that time or earlier.

Now that I had a positive identification of a name, a rough timeframe, a place and a confirmed relative, it wasn't hard to track AW Foster down. I arrived here:

"WHITING FOSTER, a pioneer of William County, was born in Portage County, Ohio, March 30, 1822, and is the eldest of three children born to Cyrus and Ruth (Day) Foster. He is a blacksmith and gun maker by trade, at which he has been working since he was twenty-two years of age. When quite young, he was brought by his parents to Huron County; in 1844, he moved to Steuben County, Ind.; in 1849 he came to this township and settled in the northeastern part, where there were but few inhabitants, and most of his time was passed in hunting; in 1860, he moved to Columbia and engaged in blacksmithing, at which he has been quite successful. He was married, December 30, 1846, to Sophia Johnson of Orleans County, N.Y., and they have had a family of four children, of whom three are still living -- Sarah, born August 22, 1849; Mary, born April 3, 1854, William, born June 9, 1855; they are all married and living in this county."

- County of Williams, Ohio: Historical and Biographical, with an Outline Sketch of the Northwest Territory, of the State, and Miscellaneous Matters, Weston A. Goodspeed & Charles Blanchard, F.A Battery & Co, (1882), pg 812.

http://books.google.com/books?id=YYI8AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA812&lpg=PA812&dq=whiting foster blacksmith ohio&source=bl&ots=uMiF3dkko5&sig=yhB5W6z9jr625Q10FnaOQfudVls&hl=en&sa=X&ei=8sBGVN_bF8-BygTxz4GQCw&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=whiting foster blacksmith ohio&f=false

Albert Whiting Foster was born in 1821/2, died 1893.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=111311365

Interestingly, there is also a William P. Foster (same first name as Whiting's son and Orlo's father, but born earlier, in 1832) who served in the 5th Independent Co. Ohio Sharpshooters during the war, mustering out in Nashville Tennessee (about 80 miles East from where I found this rifle - also in TN, and where it had apparently been for some time) in 1865. I'm not done researching, but it would be interesting to find if there was a family connection between AW Foster and William P. Foster. Maybe a brother? So far my efforts to track down this specific Wm/William P. Foster beyond his CW records and a possible tombstone have gone cold, and I can't seem to dig any further back on AW either to see if he had a brother of that name. We'll see what turns up in the coming weeks though.