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Examples of Fake Fantasy & Reproduction Wings


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#1 Paul C.

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 05:56 AM

What to watch for: Examples of fake/reproduction Wings

Forum members, I am starting this thread as a reference for collectors of all levels, as a place to post pictures and give tips on reproduction wings, Please post!

I will get this one started myself, with a current wing I pulled from eBay.

Thanks,

Paul
fake_robbins1.jpg

Looks like another Meyer restrike......

fake_robbins2.jpg

Surprise!

fake_robbins3.jpg

Edited by John Cooper, 23 January 2009 - 07:01 PM.


#2 Paul C.

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 07:23 AM

OK here are a couple more that I wouldn't buy:

fake_glider_ft.jpg
Standard Meyer Pattern

fake_Glider.jpg
Bad GEMSCO stamp

Ah, the poor T/O wing, it took me years to find a good one, but on eBay there are TONs of them ( and at shows too, lets be fair). In 9 years on eBay I have seen about 4 yes FOUR good T/O wings and they all sold for $400+

badtoft.jpg
Another Meyer Pattern

badtobk.jpg
No hallmark, but the sterling stamp under the fiiting is a dead giveaway to me, and of course it has the wrong type of pin, even for an "issue" Meyer piece.

I just want to say that these are my opinions on these pieces, I welcome comments!

#3 Paul C.

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 10:23 AM

One of the things I aways look for is that the hallmark matches the pattern. In the case of the Glider wing for example, that "hallmark" would never be found on that pattern wing. Someone might try to tell you that Gemsco bought the wing from Meyer or some such, and who knows they might be right , but I wouldn't buy the wing!
Here's a link to a real one:
http://www.ww2wings....aafglider.shtml

Here is what the Flight engineer is SUPPOSED to look like:
http://www.ww2wings....tengineer.shtml

There are a lot of good reference books that have examples of what hallmarks are supposed to look like. A great online reference is of course Bob Schwartz 's wings site. He isn't updating it any more but if you click on the pictures, in many cases you will get a picture of the back of the wing. ( http://www.ww2wings.com/main.shtml ). This site is a GREAT reference. I will still, however try to post some here!

#4 Sgt Brown

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 05:53 AM

I have a pair of Meyers Liaison Pilot wings I bought about 15 years ago. They are the reproductions. Below is a photo showing the back hallmarks. It is my understanding that the repops were marked with "Sterling" and the NSMeyer shield but original Meyer wings also had the stamping "NSMeyer" on them, for a total of three hallmarks.

Sound right?

Tom

Attached Images

  • wings2.JPG


#5 Paul C.

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Posted 19 March 2007 - 06:00 AM

I have a pair of Meyers Liaison Pilot wings I bought about 15 years ago. They are the reproductions. Below is a photo showing the back hallmarks. It is my understanding that the repops were marked with "Sterling" and the NSMeyer shield but original Meyer wings also had the stamping "NSMeyer" on them, for a total of three hallmarks.

Sound right?

Tom

Tom,

Here is the hallmark I always look for on WWII Meyer wings:
DSC03154b.jpg
There are others that are good too, but this is the one I really like to find!
These happen to be on a 3" Sterling Flight Engineer I have listed on eBay right now

Paul

#6 John Cooper

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 09:21 PM

Here is a wing up for questions - the first thing that jumps out is the lack of detailing inside the shield. All other Balfour Service Pilots I have seen have the horizontal line patter in the shield. (example - see link)



http://www.ww2wings....ilotsmall.shtml



What do you all think? SOrry no photos of the reverse...



http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/9931/servicepilotsm9.jpg







http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/4492/servicepilot2ep1.jpg

#7 Paul C.

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 11:46 AM

Pics for reference:

d876_12.jpg
dc8b_12.jpg

#8 John Cooper

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 06:40 PM

The Pasquale makers mark is the first sign!

#9 Paul C.

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Posted 11 June 2007 - 06:39 AM

Fake Luxenberg:

Here is a recently listed 1st pattern Luxenberg Pilot:
bc83_12.jpg
b661_12.jpg
b890_12.jpg

The detail is weak, the pin is wrong and the wing is too thin, follow the link to see A REAL ONE : http://www.ww2wings....fluxpilot.shtml

#10 Paul C.

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 05:02 AM

John,

Oh yes that fake LGB T/O

1181152866_4011.jpg
1181153053_9945.jpg

Actually that's not fake, it's the LARGE PRINT variation for older collectors http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/hapy0004.gif

#11 pfrost

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Posted 18 August 2007 - 02:59 PM

Nice thread guys. I hope the novice collectors gain some important insight. The worst thing when you first get started collecting wings is trying to navigate through the goons, con artists, fakers, and other low life types.

I have finally started to update my webpage with a fakes section. Its mostly my opinion and experience, but maybe you guys will find it interesting. (http://pfrost.bol.ucla.edu/05.html). The first page deals with general questions about fakes, the second shows some examples.

Mostly, the wings are from images I have picked up here and there.

Visit the rest of my site. BTW, nothing is for sale. Just an ego website for my hobby.

Patrick

#12 cwnorma

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 10:15 AM

Currently being offered on ebay. It's construction is, shall we say; "unique":

http://cgi.ebay.com/...emZ160253521147

G2SM3ff35fae_bab9_44aa_8877_2d541f7754e4_17518.jpg


Bonus for the first person who recognizes what this was originally made from.

#13 cwnorma

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 10:16 AM

G2SMc0034263_c45a_4859_ac1f_b54691be2967_17518.jpg



#14 cwnorma

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 10:17 AM

G2SM17cf73d8_9ed0_4f31_abd0_e72bc233bcbf_17518.jpg



#15 Jeremiah

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 10:17 AM

Made from a naval officer's hat emblem?

#16 Orgone

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 10:40 AM

I got it. It's for a Naval Pilot! :lol:

#17 Lee Ragan

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 06:46 AM

This would have been for a "Military Aviator", during the WW1 era. A Junior Military Aviator would have worn the wings without the star. The Senior Pilot see know today, didn't come out til about 1937 by adding a star above the center shield.
Neat looking wings tho! http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif

Edited by Lee Ragan, 23 June 2008 - 06:47 AM.


#18 pfrost

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 10:48 AM

Thats about the truth of it, expect multiple variations of the "cut the wings offen somthin', cover it with black felt, and sell it to the rubes" ebay auctions. The big money that some of the real wings are getting on some of the auctions right now seem to be pushing the goons and goobers into new fits of faking and fraud. Sad thing.

Their are a family of WWI pilot, observer, and balloon wings that I used to see at the old great western gun show. I still see them showing up here and there, out of old collections and from the same old group of questionable dealers at the militaria shows. They were typically hand cut silver strips (or some sort of silver like metal), hand chased with a chisel, and typically backed with a heavy black or dark blue wool. THey werent intended to fool anyone but the novice collector and were usually priced at a fraction of the cost of a real wing. This particular wing seems to be out of that general pattern of fantasy wing makers.

#19 Paul C.

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 05:08 AM

G2SM17cf73d8_9ed0_4f31_abd0_e72bc233bcbf_17518.jpg



This piece of junk sold for over $700......

#20 none

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Posted 16 July 2008 - 03:56 AM

The center shield is from a Meyer and Wenthe WWI wing which is one of the more reproduced wings around. You can tell by the "US" in the shield. That mis-shape US is from their wing. I have enclosed a picture of the Meyer & Wenthe wing, it's one of my reproductions. How can you tell a real M&W, look at the back and it the hallmark is in a circle of the words Meyer & Wenthe and also says Chicago its real, if only sterling is it a reproduction.

The cloth is incorrect for the era.

Attached Images

  • P_1139_M_W_.jpg

Edited by weingarten, 16 July 2008 - 03:57 AM.


#21 pfrost

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 07:07 PM

Here is another one along the same lines as the one above. In fact, it comes from the same guy. Classic fake wing that is going to screw someone over royally.

The wings and shield are hand cut from a plate of "sliver" then chased with a file and chisel. The individual bits are then put on a brass backing and sewn with felt. I cant believe people fall for these wings.

Attached Images

  • fightingobserver1.jpg

Edited by pfrost, 19 August 2008 - 07:10 PM.


#22 pfrost

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 08:12 PM

Here is the auction for this wing. http://cgi.ebay.com/...1QQcmdZViewItem

wonder what it will eventually sell for?


This POS sold for over 1200$!
http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/crying.gif

#23 IMPERIAL QUEST

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 06:59 PM

Wing in post #21

Patrick, does this look like it could be from the same person or outfit that created the wing with the brown OD backing you and I discussed? I see some similarities in the wing cuts and especially in that zig zag pattern in the shield... http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/think.gif

Edited by IMPERIAL QUEST, 26 August 2008 - 07:16 PM.


#24 pfrost

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 08:49 AM

Wing in post #21

Patrick, does this look like it could be from the same person or outfit that created the wing with the brown OD backing you and I discussed? I see some similarities in the wing cuts and especially in that zig zag pattern in the shield... http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/think.gif


Steve, yes, I think these are exactly the same "type" of fake that we were talking about.

There are a family of fake WWI wings that show up. They almost always have a series of similarities that once you look at a few, you will get the idea of what I am talking about.

They typically use a sheet of metal that has been hand cut with a hack saw, frequently rather crudely. The tips of the feathers are usually very sharp and have been cut so that the edge of the wing looks like the blades of a saw. The details of the feathers are, more often than not, hand chased into the metal with a chisel and usually use a variety of "V" shapes and slashes to form the feathering. The shield (or "O" or balloon) in the center is also hand worked and has rather crude and poor detail. For example, in the above wing, the stars are not centered or spaced evenly.

Sometimes the wings are put on a brass backing, sometimes not. When on a backing, it is usually wrapped with a felt material, often times artificially aged. The pin, hinge and catch are usually hand made and look nothing like the hardware found on real WWI wings.

The feeling seems to be that these rather crude, handmade pieces are "jeweler made" as if a real jeweler wouldnt have access to sterling silver, jewelers saws, awls, files, rasps, chisels and skill. Instead, they look like they were made by some guy with a vise, a hack saw, a chisels, and a butane torch.

here are a couple more of this general pattern: A ballon wing that was recently discussed (please forgive me if I err in reposting the images here).

Attached Images

  • fakeballon.jpg


#25 pfrost

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Posted 06 September 2008 - 02:00 PM

Here is yet another of that same family of fakes. At least this one is being sold on ebay as a fake. Actually, the workmanship on this one is a bit better than the normal run of the mill wings. But still, a fake.

Attached Images

  • habwing.jpg
  • habwing1.jpg



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