Thor996 Posted August 27, 2014 Share #1 Posted August 27, 2014 I have an opportunity to purchase a bayonet; I am hesitant do do so because the blade is rusted- is there a safe way to clean this or should I pass on it- it is not a rare type btw. thanks much dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKIPH Posted August 27, 2014 Share #2 Posted August 27, 2014 Thor996 -What kind of bayonet are you looking at? The type of bayonet would let us know what kind of finish it has, thus a preferred way for cleaning it. THX SKIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor996 Posted August 27, 2014 Author Share #3 Posted August 27, 2014 it would be a WW1 Springfield Amory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKIPH Posted August 27, 2014 Share #4 Posted August 27, 2014 Thor996- Was it blued, parkerized, or still bright finished? SKIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor996 Posted August 27, 2014 Author Share #5 Posted August 27, 2014 Skip- i don't think it was parkerized Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKIPH Posted August 27, 2014 Share #6 Posted August 27, 2014 Thor996- Is the rust light, or heavy, and pitted. You can always go with some WD40, or oil, Then wipe it down with an old T-shirt. That's how I'd start. Not knowing, or seeing the condition of the bayonet. SKIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles1966 Posted August 28, 2014 Share #7 Posted August 28, 2014 I collected antique tools (among other things) for many, many (30+) years and I've found that vinegar is a very good (SLOW) rust remover. It is also a very good at removing brass tarnish and silver tarnish as well, not to mention cheap... Be aware that vinegar is a low grade acid and like all acids, is corrosive, so keep this in mind... The first rule of preservation and or restoration, is don't do anything that can't be undone, i.e. drilling, grinding, sanding, etc... I have had very good results in removing rust from planer blades as well other things, that are 200 plus years old, where it is profoundly important that you do not compromise the makers marks by removing any metal... It is best that you experiment on something that's not going to break your heart if you destroy it, so that being said... It's very important that you keep an eye on it and check it every few hours and clean the loose rust with some very fine steel wool. I once cleaned a French infantry briquet that was in poor condition by submerging it two gallons of white vinegar for about 20 hours, in one of those cheap plastic three foot planter boxes that you buy at Lowes and it turned out great... Also, once the item is cleaned, just pour the vinegar back into the gallon jugs and use it again for your next project... Be aware that I have done this many times and I know exactly how to do it, because I have learned the hard way. I once forgot about corner chisel, used for making mortise and tenon joints for about a week and it pitted the metal beyond repair... It's important that you quickly coat the metal after it is rinsed and dried, because it will start to rust almost immediately when exposed to the air... I could go on like this for hours, so If anyone else has a better idea please post it, as I would like to hear them as well. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ka bar Posted August 28, 2014 Share #8 Posted August 28, 2014 I determine first if rust treatment is futile or not If the rust is superficial, then I use CLR and a denture toothbrush It is firm but won't scratch the blade, and its great for cleaning out makers marks I don't like using WD-40 as it makes my collection smell like a workshop, but it is great in removing rust as SKIPH has alluded to... Oh, I would check the blade finish if I were you Blued, parkerised or bright blades may need different treatment... I only use this treatment for blued or bright blades... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles1966 Posted August 28, 2014 Share #9 Posted August 28, 2014 I've never tried clr for this particular application. However, like vinegar, clr is an acid, just a different type. I suppose the difference is, how fast it works... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ka bar Posted August 28, 2014 Share #10 Posted August 28, 2014 I've never tried clr for this particular application. However, like vinegar, clr is an acid, just a different type. I suppose the difference is, how fast it works... Hi Charles... Yeah, it works pretty much instantaneously... It gets a really good lather up, stings the hands a bit... I think for more deeper rust, pouring some CLR in a tray and allowing the blade to soak for 1/2hr would be beneficial... Its great to use on bayonets that you can strip off the grips as then there is only metal soaking in it... For US blades with leather grips, soaking is a big no no... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porterkids Posted August 28, 2014 Share #11 Posted August 28, 2014 I think the simple answer is if it's a common bayonet and it's rusted, don't buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles1966 Posted August 28, 2014 Share #12 Posted August 28, 2014 I have some clr and plenty of rusty things in the garage. I think I'll experiment a little. If you have the time, try experimenting with some white vinegar, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with the results. For brass items the results are almost shocking... The working time is quite a bit longer but it gives it plenty of time to really soak through the rust... As for simply passing on the bayonet, if you're on a budget like many of us are, a pristine WW1 Springfield bayonet may be out of ones reach. So if you have a little restoration savvy, a marginal item ( a bayonet for instance ) can not only be preserved but it can be restored to fine serviceable condition not to mention a valuable piece of history... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactroop Posted August 29, 2014 Share #13 Posted August 29, 2014 Nice thread here. I'd like to bring up the specific case where one is trying to deal with rust on a blade that has a "blued finish", not to be confused with "parkerizing" which I've noticed over the years that many tend to group those terms together. I've personally avoided letting a blued service being exposed to an acid. I'm not sure if that is a good general rule or that the "PH" level of said acid makes a difference in using it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lambo35 Posted August 30, 2014 Share #14 Posted August 30, 2014 I have had good results removing Lt-Med rust from blades using brass wool or oooo steel wool and penetrating oil. Soak the blade [all the rust] over night in the oil, then rub [not too vigorously] the blade until you get the results you are satisfied with. On pitted metal you can use a fine steel or brass brush. Be patient! Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ka bar Posted August 30, 2014 Share #15 Posted August 30, 2014 I have some clr and plenty of rusty things in the garage. I think I'll experiment a little. If you have the time, try experimenting with some white vinegar, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with the results. For brass items the results are almost shocking... The working time is quite a bit longer but it gives it plenty of time to really soak through the rust... As for simply passing on the bayonet, if you're on a budget like many of us are, a pristine WW1 Springfield bayonet may be out of ones reach. So if you have a little restoration savvy, a marginal item ( a bayonet for instance ) can not only be preserved but it can be restored to fine serviceable condition not to mention a valuable piece of history... G'day Charles again... My concern with vinegar is the smell... I live in a small 2 storey town house... WD-40 smells like a garage... vinegar would smell like a fish/chip shop or my feet... Do you have any trouble with the smell? Oh geez...before I forget...you gotta rinse off the CLR with water, then dry, then apply a thin coat of watch maker oil... If you don't rinse it off, it developes a powdery look!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles1966 Posted August 30, 2014 Share #16 Posted August 30, 2014 Hello again, I agree it does smell a bit, however I put together a five inch pvc pipe with one end capped and glued with pvc glue (of course). The other end (the top) has a removable cap. It's a portable dip tank of sorts... The whole thing will prop up in a corner or stand on its own, (if you buy flat caps) while the vinegar works its magic and it keeps the smell to minimum... The removable cap has very snug fit at first but if you sand the pipe a bit, it makes it easy to remove. Don't fill the tube to the top (leave 6 or 7 inches) as you need a little room for gas expansion.. This may be a solution for your close living conditions... The pipe is three feet long and will accommodate just about anything I want to put in it. It's great if you want to work indoors during the winter months as my garage is not heated... It also helps that my wife is VERY accomodating to my hobbies... Likewise, you have to rinse and dry it afterwards and I apply a coat of gun oil... In response to lambo35, where do you buy brass wool, I've never seen it? I've had good luck with P.B. Blaster penetrating oil (pepperoni grease)... I use it at work all the time. Do you have any suggestions of a better oil? I don't care for WD-40 for this application... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ka bar Posted August 30, 2014 Share #17 Posted August 30, 2014 Charles...what brilliant BRILLIANT idea! I never would have thought of that PVC idea... You could call it a "portable" device and take it on the road when doing the flea market circuit!! Any rusty items you pick up...just stick them in the tube and they can pickle away in the boot (or trunk as you Americans say)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles1966 Posted August 30, 2014 Share #18 Posted August 30, 2014 If I had to do it over again, I would have built it with a threaded clean out cap that screws into place as opposed to just tapping it on. To be honest they're not that expensive to build. I could make another, that if necessary could lay on its side. One just has to be careful when opening it, as pressure may build while tightly closed, especially in the Australian sun, we're not building bombs you know... The good thing about these, is you can make them any length you want. You can even accommodate a sword if you want. To: Sactroop, as far as using vinegar on a blued blade, I'd try it on something that I'm not in love with. If you want to experiment and you have some cold bluing, prep and blue a piece of steel then soak it in the vinegar solution and see what happens... You can cut the vinegar with distilled water to slow the process down that much more. I wonder if you could cut it with isopropyl alcohol or would it counter act the corrosive process, or create a big smoldering crater where my garage used to be? I'll give it a think... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactroop Posted August 30, 2014 Share #19 Posted August 30, 2014 I'm sure you won't get any smoldering craters. As far as putting anything acidic on a blued surface rather than experiment I think I'll stick with mineral spirits, penetrating oil, or hoppe's #9 gun cleaner and nothing more abrasive than #0000 steel wool. Why mess with success? For penetrating oil I've used Kano's "kroil" for years now. You can get it in both a can or an aerosol whichever you prefer. I can't say if it's better or worse than P.B. Blaster, but I've never had a situation where it didn't do it's job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles1966 Posted August 30, 2014 Share #20 Posted August 30, 2014 I 'll have to try Kano's, I'm always looking for good recipes. This is one of the things that I love abut this site, the free exchange of ideas and experience... As far as mineral oil, I have an almost unlimited access to large quantities of mineral (transformer) oil, as I am an Electrical Lineman and the company I work for, has to pay to rid of the stuff anyway when a transformer fails. The viscosity of transformer oil is extremely thin and it would most likely penetrate very well, if left to soak for a few weeks. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactroop Posted August 31, 2014 Share #21 Posted August 31, 2014 To find it search for "kroil". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor996 Posted August 31, 2014 Author Share #22 Posted August 31, 2014 This is the reason i love this forum: awesome members/ thanks to all who contributed to this thread: i tell everyone I know who wants to collect or has even a passing interest in miltaria [uS] to join this forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles1966 Posted September 1, 2014 Share #23 Posted September 1, 2014 I agree, this is a great site. I'm not new to to collecting but I am new to this site and I have nothing but good things to say about it... I googled kroil and read up on its history and performance. I'm in the process of tracking down the best price and I'm going to order some, thanks and good luck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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