Fake Experimental M7 Bayonets

[M7bayonet]

I just have to get this off my chest. I was just going through M7 bayonets on ebay and ran across one of the bowie blade leather handle M7 bayonets put together by SARCO years ago with surplus CONETTA blades and cheap leather handles, (they also produced a version with the standard two piece black plastic M7 handles). I bring this up because searching further I found 3 more of these bayonets listed on ebay and they were listed as "US CONETTA EXPERIMENTAL M7 BAYONET FIGHTING KNIFE" and were listed for $175, $275, and $300. I really find these types of sales as offensive and very negative to the whole field of bayonet collecting. It would be just as easy to advertise these items for what they are and sell them as that. They have a certain appeal as a fantasy piece and I am sure some people would purchase them as just that, of course not for those prices. The whole ideal of these items being listed as experimental or Green Beret/Ranger/Special Forces bayonets and charging such outlandish prices is disgusting. I take pride in my collection of M7 bayonets and if I ever were to sell them I would represent every item for exactly what it is and sell it accordingly. As a member of the Society of American Bayonet Collectors (SABC) I believe it is even against our by-laws to purposely misrepresent a bayonet we sell. I will gladly help anyone with any questions pertaining to authenticity of any M7 bayonet they have an issue with and also an approximate value. I hope new collectors don't get ripped off by fakes, (although most of us have had to learn the hard way over the years). I just really had to get this off my chest. And just to let you know, it took me over 14 years and hard research to locate, identify and eventually get to purchase a real experimental "Sniper" version leather handle M7 bayonet with a USN Mark 2 blade, and it came from a Command Sergeant Major in the Army at Ft. Campbell, KY.

[Misfit 45]

M7bayonet,

I was just starting to collect bayonets when Sarco offered these for sale. If I remember correctly, they were $75.00. They looked cool, but something in their ad lead me to believe that they were not US issue bayonets. I wish I had kept the Shotgun News with this bayonet. They also were offering British Sten gun bayonet replicas and said that ALL of the originals were scrapped by the British. Yet, every now and then, I see "Original" Sten gun bayonets for sale on ebay. Now, let me ask you, when was the last time you saw a bayonet book with real M7 prototypes. Never. Ok, Cole's books shows two or three, and American Gladius shows several, but the information about this leather handled Conetta Mk2 bayonet is not out there, so the believable perception of reality becomes reality. If I had not seen the Sarco ad, I would have bought one of these a couple of decades ago. Without information to the contrary, why wouldn't people believe that a Conetta marked blade M7 would not be real? Especially when they might have seen a real Rock Island made experimental bayonet in Cole's book that looks similar. I have passed up at least two LanCay experimental M9s simply because there was little to no information out there. I just thought they were more commercial bayonets which LanCay made (and they made a lot).

Quite a while back you sent me some great pictures of the differences in the experimental PI bayonets. You know more about M7 bayonets than anyone I know. Maybe it's time to update your website. After that, get that book started.

Marv

[M7bayonet]

Marv......I have already talked to Frank about adding more info on my page. I was going to start adding foreign M7s, but I have decided i am going to add the Product Improved Ranger tested M7s and the "Sniper" leather handle M7s along with all the fake copies I have run across with good pics of all of them and descriptions so collectors can tell the real items from the fakes out there. There were only 50 Product Improved M7s made so they are rare and expensive and from the info I could find there are less copies of the so called "Sniper" version. I will also list some rare versions of M7s that are hard to find and have a tendency to demand bigger prices. I also have just finished up two articles for the SABC Journal, one pertaining to the American contract Eickhorn made 1st Pattern M7s for Haiti and Vietnam and Desert Storm actual combat used M7s. I am also gathering items and research together to begin writing my book on M7s, something which I hope collectors will refer to for M7 research as much as I and collector's around the world have done for bayonet research with Gary's "American Military Bayonets of the 20th Century".

[Misfit 45]

I am thrilled to hear that you are moving in this direction. I am looking forward to seeing the fruits of your years of collecting experience.

Marv

Ps

I have occasionally emailed the sellers of the Sarco M7s and most of them have no idea what they are and will not be convinced they are fantasy pieces. At least now there will be a reference to site.

[ccyooper]

Thank you for bringing up this topic and sharing your information. It is nice to be reminded/refreshed of information that we have forgotten.

 

Regards,

CC

[tankerman]

Hey M7,

 

I look forward to getting your book. I have a few m7's but only focused on US issue.

 

I have an original SHERWOOD ad from the 1970's on slick paper showing all the EICKHORN blades they offered as sole US agent .

 

Best of luck on your venture.

AL tankerman

[bayonetman]

Bill, I agree that a lot of bayonets and knives on eBay and other sites are totally misrepresented. I know that in some cases the seller really does not know any better, but there are times you just know it is a fast buck artist. I used to email them and tell them about it, but finally gave up. Too many "experts" out there who have told them different. Buyer Beware is as important now as it ever was.

 

Looking forward to your book. You probably are aware that my personal interest and research tended toward the earlier items - the Korean period was about as far as my serious interest tended. I am certainly glad to see someone working on the later bayonets - now if we can just get Bill Porter to cover the M9!

[sactroop]

You bring up one of my own pet peeves when it comes to the Sarco/Conetta fantasy bayonet.

It’s really not that hard to get to the truth of one of these for anyone willing to do their own homework. Yet it just seems like there are so many people out there who just got to make it into something it isn’t.

I do have to say that one auction I watched back when prices were high for just about anything in the market, the seller put one of these up for auction and went above and beyond in providing an absolutely accurate description of the bayonet. He included references to Franks Reproduction Recognition page on USMilitary Knives site, even included an image of one of the old Sarco adds. He really couldn’t have done anything more on describing the bayonet for exactly what it was.

At the end of the auction the bayonet still sold for over 3 bills. (???)!!

Made me wonder who the buyer had in mind.

[M7bayonet]

I have contacted sellers in the past and explained they were misrepresenting the bayonet as something it wasn't, and in most cases I was basically told to mind my own business. In one instance after contacting the seller of a SARCO Conetta M7, he posted another type of M7 and posted pictures from my page to go along with his item and the picture was of a completely different type of M7. I had to contact him again and get very angry with him for using my pictures to misrepresent what he was selling. I made him remove my pictures from his ad. I have no problem with people using my pics or info to accurately represent a M7, but I will not be a part of deception.

[M7bayonet]

Gary......I am not going to say I am happy that your interests are with earlier types of bayonets, but I will do my best to write a book as accurate and as well read and studied as yours is. Also, I have mentioned to Bill Porter many times that he should write a book on M9 bayonets. When I went to his house one time I was amazed at his bayonet collection, and in particular his many rare, unique and unusual M9s. And yes Bill, you have some M7s that I don't have and you actually let me touch them.

[royski]

So, is this a total fantasy piece or is there a real example as well?

 

Also, on M9 bayonets, wasn't there a book written fairly recently on them? I believe I saw a copy on my fathers shelf back in NY.

[M7bayonet]

The SARCO Conetta M7s are fantasy pieces that were put together by SARCO in the 1980s after they purchased surplus Conetta blades. They attached the blades to M7 bayonets and added cheap leather handles, although with some they left the M7 black plastic handles on. The Conetta blade M7s are all fantasy pieces.
There is a very rare leather handled M7 bayonet with an unmarked USN Mk II blade that was produced in very small numbers at Rock Island Arsenal in 1975. It is a very well made bayonet with a very well made leather handle. The one in my collection is only stamped with US M7 on the crossguard and no stampings on the blade. Mine was issued to a soldier of the 101st Airborne Division in 1975 and and he carried it until he retired as a Command Sergeant Major. These are experimental M7s and were made for an experimental M-16 and are referred to as the sniper version. They never went into full production. My research indicates there were less then 50 produced and probably closer to only 30 made. A very high priced M7. They were issued with USN MK2 scabbards.

 

Top Photos: The "sniper" version M7 on top, a fake one made by a guy in Massachusetts that was selling them last year on ebay with Camillus blades and at the bottom is the SARCO Conetta M7.

 

The 2nd pic is the "sniper" version compared to a SARCO Conetta M7. Bill

 

 

[porterkids]

There was a book published on the M9 a few years ago, American Gladius. It leaves much to be desired.

 

There is a new M9 book in the works. I am not the author but I am working with the person doing the book. I have agreed to contribute photos of the bayonets in my collection that he does not have for the book. It will cover the Phrobis and Buck manufactured bayonets. I tried to get him to include LanCay but he said he would leave that for me.

[M7bayonet]

The SARCO Conetta blade M7 with the leather handle went for $175 plus shipping. Now there is a SARCO Conetta blade M7 with the two piece black plastic handles on ebay for $165. Fantasy pieces. At least this latest one listed doesn't make claims of being experimental or anything far fetched, it simply says "these pieces are becoming harder and harder to find". As long as there are people willing to pay these ridiculous prices for these items they will be on the market.

[M7bayonet]

My frustration in not being able to post pics continues. If anyone needs or wants to see pics of a real "sniper" version M7 or see pics of the fake versions just contact me at [email protected] and I will send you some.

 

(Note - I added the photos for M7Bayonet in Post #12 above - Bayonetman)

[porterkids]

Bill,

 

Next to the "post" button is "More Reply Options" Click on that, then you can select photos from your computer to upload to the site. If your picture files are too big they will not load.

[SKIPH]

I'm still regretting I didn't buy one from Sarco in the 80s. I liked the concept, and figured Conetta actually made them. Saw one at the Raleigh Show a few back, seller wanted $150. Got side tracked and forgot to look at it again. Oh well. SKIP

[M7bayonet]

SKIPH.....as fantasy pieces go, the SARCO Conetta M7s can add something unique to a collection. And as the seller of the one with the black plastic handles said in his ad.....these are getter harder and harder to find. It's when they are totally misrepresented as experimental, Special Forces, or Ranger Vietnam used that creates all the chaos in the collection market. I still have people at gun shows that are totally convinced they are the Rock Island Sniper version and even after showing them an original Sniper version they insist mine is the fake. It just gets very hard to destroy myths and falsehoods that have been out there so long. That is why I really have to thank Gary for posting the photos for me on here. It is much easier to see the differences with a photo.

[Patchcollector]

M7bayonet,I don't collect bayonets but I appreciate your concern about this issue.Thanks for the informative post and thanks also for your generous offer to help anyone with questions regarding M7 bayonets.

[Boone]

New to the forum so I'm adding my 2 cents worth to old topics. Here is my Sarco Conetta M7 with the Sarco add and the Bayonet World description. I'm currently looking for a plastic handled example for my collection.