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2nd Award CIB being worn today?


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#1 Bill

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 08:49 PM

Today in "The Olympian" the front page picture is of BG Erik Kurilla, MOH recipient MSG Petry and his wife Ashley at MSG Petry's promotion / retirement ceremony.

 

Did the Army change its policy on wearing stars on the CIB?  Or is it a General thing?

 

I think if they haven't changed the policy, maybe they should.

 

Here are a couple of pictures for post 1 and 2.

 

Thanks,

 

Bill

 

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#2 Bill

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 08:50 PM

Picture 2

 

 

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#3 CHASEUSA11B

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 09:01 PM

Which policy are you referring to? He appears to be a gulf war and Iraq vet. There's till quite a few soldiers with stars on their CIB
In the army

#4 Bill

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 09:59 PM

Which policy are you referring to? He appears to be a gulf war and Iraq vet. There's till quite a few soldiers with stars on their CIB
In the army

 

I believe it was / is AR 670-1.

 

During the Vietnam war the Army stopped awarding the CIB for different wars / engagements etc...
 

You were awarded the CIB or the CMB once on orders and that was it.

 

I've met many SNCOS and Officers who had served in Nam and earned their CIB or CMB and served again in Grenada, Panama and round 1 in the desert.

Even though some of them met the criteria, none were awarded a 2nd or 3rd CIB or CMB.

 

I've been out since 1995 and things may change, I live less than 10 miles from Joint Base Lewis McChord and see soldiers everyday but I have never seen one with a star on their CIB or CMB.

 

Anyone know what the reg reads?

 

Bill



#5 SergeantMajorGray

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 10:07 PM

 

I believe it was / is AR 670-1.

 

During the Vietnam war the Army stopped awarding the CIB for different wars / engagements etc...
 

You were awarded the CIB or the CMB once on orders and that was it.

 

I've met many SNCOS and Officers who had served in Nam and earned their CIB or CMB and served again in Grenada, Panama and round 1 in the desert.

Even though some of them met the criteria, none were awarded a 2nd or 3rd CIB or CMB.

 

I've been out since 1995 and things may change, I live less than 10 miles from Joint Base Lewis McChord and see soldiers everyday but I have never seen one with a star on their CIB or CMB.

 

Anyone know what the reg reads?

 

Bill

 

From what I heard they included those engagements as Vietnam war era so a soldier would not get another award of the CIB but they never stopped awarding them I guess you would say. Others will no more and as you might know you don't add a star to your CIB you receive another award of it for instance my grandfather was in WW2, Korea and Vietnam vet so he wore the 3rd award of the CIB that has 2 stars.
 



#6 vzemke

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 01:38 AM

The Global War on Terror is it's own separate award period.   Desert Storm/Grenade/Panama/Somalia were all part of a much larger single award period.  So qualifying for a CIB/CMB in one or more of those previous conflicts and then again after 9/11 qualifies that soldier for a 2nd award (aka badge with star).



#7 Bill

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 05:00 AM

The Global War on Terror is it's own separate award period. Desert Storm/Grenade/Panama/Somalia were all part of a much larger single award period. So qualifying for a CIB/CMB in one or more of those previous conflicts and then again after 9/11 qualifies that soldier for a 2nd award (aka badge with star).


Thanks for understanding my question.

The policy was changed.

Bill

#8 atb

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 05:39 AM

The Army simply started another award qualification period with the GWOT. It continues the practice of major action CIB/CMB award periods- WW2, Korean War, Vietnam Era and beyond and now the GWOT. I guess the periods of the conflicts between Vietnam (and during, i.e. Dominican Republic and Korea DMZ) and GWOT were not considered major enough to constitute seperate CIB/CMB award qualification periods.

#9 tarbridge

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 08:36 AM

We see the 2nd awards around Ft Bragg quite a lot.



#10 Bill

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 07:25 AM

We see the 2nd awards around Ft Bragg quite a lot.

 

One might think with the SF, Ranger and Striker units up here I would see a few.

 

The picture of the BG is the first I've seen, maybe most of the Gulf war soldiers have retired.

 

Bill
 



#11 quack

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 11:47 PM

AR 600-8-22 (2011) says:

 

 " f. Second and third awards of the CIB are indicated by superimposing 1 and 2 stars respectively, centered at the top

of the badge between the points of the oak wreath. To date, a separate award of the CIB has been authorized for

qualified Soldiers in the following qualifying periods:

(1) World War II (7 December 1941 to 3 September 1945).

(2) The Korean Conflict (27 June 1950 to 27 July 1953).

(3) The Republic of Vietnam Conflict. Service in the Republic of Vietnam conflict (2 March 1961 to 28 March

1973) combined with qualifying service in Laos; Dominican Republic; Korea on the DMZ; El Salvador; Grenada; Joint

Security Area, Panmunjom, Korea; Panama; Southwest Asia Conflict; and Somalia, regardless of whether a Soldier has

served one or multiple tours in any or all of these areas. The Republic of Vietnam Conflict Era officially terminated on

10 March 1995.

(4) War on Terrorism (Afghanistan, Operation ENDURING FREEDOM) and (Iraq, Operation IRAQI FREEDOM).

 g. Subsequent awards of the CIB is not authorized for the same qualifying period, as outlined above."

 

So, definitely possible and authorized.  



#12 scottiques

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 06:57 AM

It was not that prevalent when I served (retired about 5 years ago), and I would think it is seen even less often now as the awardee would be a 20+ year man.

 

I always thought it was odd that the "Vietnam Conflict Era" extended all the way to 1995!

 

Scott



#13 Bill

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 10:15 AM

Thanks for everyone's input.

 

Hard to keep up with the changes without those in the know!

 

Bill



#14 Linedoggie

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 06:32 PM

4 men in my company circa 2005 were awarded the CIB 2nd award, 2GW1,  1 Somalia, 1 Grenada



#15 Rakkasan187

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 05:02 AM

Can't tell you how many Master Sergeants and Sergeants Major attending the Sergeants Major Academy have 2nd award CIBs, but there are quite a few. All of my green suit bosses are either infantry or special forces and all of them (7) have 2nd award CIBs..

 

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#16 heftaa01

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 05:12 AM

We had two second award CIB's given out by my company in Iraq in 2009. Our Company 1SG and a SFC. Both had earned their 1st award in the Gulf War. Command made a big deal of it and the CSM and a few others came down for the pinning. It was a really interesting as they gave a recap of their service and discussed each of their 1st Award engagements. Both had over 20 yrs at the time and both retired shortly after returning CONUS.



#17 VolunteerArmoury

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 06:47 AM

Obviously this is not in accordance with the regulations but I know of several guys who were awarded a second CIB but again not IAW regulations for Iraq & Afghanistan. It was simply because a couple units didn't know/go with the regs. Probably simply someone not knowing what they actually were. I know of one guy who was a Training NCO with us in TRADOC land & a 75th then later a SF vet who'd be mid 30s now & was awarded a CIB for both OEF & OIF while in the 75th. Surprising the PAC Shop in 75th would've done such a thing but then again stranger things happen even with my own awards. The fellow was told to remove it & explained to of why but he never would. So, there are chances to see someone younger wearing a second award BUT against regs but now adays most conform. I can think of about three off the top of my head.

#18 Linedoggie

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 10:11 AM

Today in "The Olympian" the front page picture is of BG Erik Kurilla, MOH recipient MSG Petry and his wife Ashley at MSG Petry's promotion / retirement ceremony.

 

Did the Army change its policy on wearing stars on the CIB?  Or is it a General thing?

 

I think if they haven't changed the policy, maybe they should.

 

Here are a couple of pictures for post 1 and 2.

 

Thanks,

 

Bill

 

delete


Edited by Linedoggie, 10 August 2015 - 10:11 AM.


#19 scottiques

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Posted 12 August 2015 - 07:59 PM

Obviously this is not in accordance with the regulations but I know of several guys who were awarded a second CIB but again not IAW regulations for Iraq & Afghanistan. It was simply because a couple units didn't know/go with the regs. Probably simply someone not knowing what they actually were. I know of one guy who was a Training NCO with us in TRADOC land & a 75th then later a SF vet who'd be mid 30s now & was awarded a CIB for both OEF & OIF while in the 75th. Surprising the PAC Shop in 75th would've done such a thing but then again stranger things happen even with my own awards. The fellow was told to remove it & explained to of why but he never would. So, there are chances to see someone younger wearing a second award BUT against regs but now adays most conform. I can think of about three off the top of my head.

 

When I served it was typical to get ORDERS for a CIB for every conflict it was earned in.

 

I have orders for my Desert Storm, OEF and OIF CIBs, but am only entitled to wear ONE star.  Neither the OEF or OIF orders specified CIB (Second Award).

 

With the additional orders, I was able to update my ORB to reflect CIB (Second Award).

 

Leadership would never have permitted a soldier to wear a bogus CIB (Second Award).

 

 

Scott


Edited by scottiques, 12 August 2015 - 08:01 PM.


#20 seanmc1114

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Posted 17 October 2015 - 07:53 AM

The most common examples of double CIB recipients seen today are those who earned their first award in the Gulf War or Somalia and their second award in the Global War On Terror period (Iraq or Afghanistan). Here's a rare example of a double CIB recipient who earned his first award in Vietnam in the 60's and his second in the GWOT. CSM Edgar J. Hansen served as the Command Sergeant Major of the 32nd Infantry Brigade from 2006 to 2010. He enlisted in 1968 and swerved one tour in Vietnam and later, as a National Gurdsman, served one tour in Afghanistan and two in Iraq between 2003 and 2010. He arned his second award during one of those subsequent GWOT tours, most likely Afghanistan in 2003.

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#21 seanmc1114

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 06:17 AM

General Mark A. Milley, the current Army Chief of Staff, earned his first CIB in Panama and his second during the Global War on Terrorism. He served tours in both Iraq and Afghanistan, but I'm not sure which he did first to qualify for his second award.

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#22 VolunteerArmoury

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 06:54 AM

General Mark A. Milley, the current Army Chief of Staff, earned his first CIB in Panama and his second during the Global War on Terrorism. He served tours in both Iraq and Afghanistan, but I'm not sure which he did first to qualify for his second award.


I wonder if it was from when he was Brigade Commander for 10th Mountains for 2nd BCT.

#23 easterneagle87

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 08:14 PM

This is all good info, but I believe the award for the 2nd CIB and subsequent 3rd award had to do with time in theater. Vietnam, sure 1st award. All other conflicts did not meet the "time" in theater. Grenada, too short, Panama, too short, Desert Storm..100 hours, Somalia, again too short.

 

If knowledge or I remember correct … you have to be in "theater" something like 6 months to a year. I've seen the time periods after Vietnam, but nothing about "time" or months served. Iraq and Afghanistan were both - for the most part - were year deployments.

 

We had a retired Master Sergeant who was a the finance guy at the Honda dealership in Clarksville, TN when we bought a car there at the end of the '80's. Being the curious sort, I saw his uniform picture and asked him about his awards. He said they screwed him out of a 2nd CIB as he went to Dominican Republic and then Vietnam and only qual'd for one badge.      



#24 seanmc1114

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 09:38 AM

This is all good info, but I believe the award for the 2nd CIB and subsequent 3rd award had to do with time in theater. Vietnam, sure 1st award. All other conflicts did not meet the "time" in theater. Grenada, too short, Panama, too short, Desert Storm..100 hours, Somalia, again too short.

 

If knowledge or I remember correct … you have to be in "theater" something like 6 months to a year. I've seen the time periods after Vietnam, but nothing about "time" or months served. Iraq and Afghanistan were both - for the most part - were year deployments.

 

We had a retired Master Sergeant who was a the finance guy at the Honda dealership in Clarksville, TN when we bought a car there at the end of the '80's. Being the curious sort, I saw his uniform picture and asked him about his awards. He said they screwed him out of a 2nd CIB as he went to Dominican Republic and then Vietnam and only qual'd for one badge.      

There's a common misunderstanding that regulations require a certain "time in theater" to qualify for the CIB. That has never been the case. I know that unofficially, some commands during the Vietnam War would award the CIB after thirty days in the field during which the soldier engaged in actual combat, but that was only unofficial practice. Again, the actual regulations have NEVER and to this day DO NOT place any minimum time limit to qualify for the CIB. I know there were some soldiers who questioned the award for short actions like Grenada and the first Gulf War, but again, there was absolutely nothing in the regulations to preclude it. 

 

 



#25 Skysoldier80

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 09:58 AM

What is interesting is how the USMC and USN currently award their 2d and 3d CARs.  I have met numerous SOF guys from their community and they have been awarded multiple CARs during the GWOT because they were under direct fire engagements in both theaters and "other places, but everything subsequent awards have been since 2001.

 

BLUF:  Different rules for different services.

 

It has been a strange time for awarding of the CIB, CMB, and CAB for the Army.  I second what most other's have said.  The only crazy thing that I tell you about me personally is that I have been awarded both a CIB and CAB during the GWOT.  First time I was not in a billeted 11-series job even though I was currently holding a 11-series job and the second time I was. Thus I was awarded both during the GWOT, however, I would trade the CAB in for a star on my CIB if the rules would ever change, but I am afraid I would be retired by then.  The same thing happened to a few friends of mine also.  I even have a buddy who has all combat badges- First Tour to Iraq was a Door Gunner on a  Blackhawk, Second Tour was back in a 11-series billet, Third Tour was a Physician's Assistant (went to school and commissioned) during IHR and was awarded the CMB.  <-- That is pretty cool.




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