Jump to content

Question about Knife, Survival, USN, Pilot 91-164-Q


bayonetman
 Share

Recommended Posts

bayonetman

While doing some research on the ASEK knife, I found that many sources on the Internet are referring to the Knife, Sheathed, Hunting, Survival, Pilot's (commonly called the JPK by collectors) as the Knife, Survival, USN, Pilot 91-164-Q. Some of the sources (mostly quoting Wikipedia) show photos of the JPK along with the note that this is the prior WW2 era survival knife.

 

Now I know that the WW2 reference is nonsense, but where did this nomenclature come from? Is it possible that the nomenclature had something to do with the Navy Jiant Jack Knife (I know that it was not the original correct nomenclature)? Or did the Navy adopt the JPK with that nomenclature and change it later? In all the time I have been interested in edged weapons I don't recall seeing that before.

 

I am sure that Dustin or some of the other experts here will probably know, and hopefully will clear this up for me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Government created a knife type, (hunting) during WW2. The fact that years later when they adopted the JPK and decided to stock it under a category that already existed is understandable. The nomenclature (hunting knife) goes back to WW2 this specific knife doesn't. Anyway that's how I'm reading what you found. I think this is a case where the original research was stated in a way that others reading it were making assumptions that confused the name with the knife itself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

bayonetman

Well, after quite a bit more digging, I have found why newer collectors are often misled by what they find on the Internet.

 

The photo and information as it appears on Wikipedia and other sources obviously copied from Wikipedia:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASEK

 

post-66-0-67123900-1404749397.jpg

 

After some searching, I found the photo and some of the information came from the Naval History and Heritage Command website with the following information:

 

91-164-Q KNIFE, SURVIVAL, USN, PILOT

Accession: 91-164-Q

Survival Knife, USN , Pilot

Knife was issued to pilots as part of their survival kit. This knife was produced by the company Ontario in 1986. The sheath includes a sharpening stone.

Collection of Curator Branch, Naval History and Heritage Command.

 

Now it becomes obvious that the 91-164-Q is the museum accession number and has nothing to do with a military part number or nomenclature. Still don't know where "the prior World War II era survival knife" information came from but may be a part of a description from some other source. This photo and description show up on Wikipedia under ASEK, and others such as Survival Knife. Entire sections of the article appear on other websites (not sure whether they were copied from Wikipedia or Wikipedia copied them). Interestingly, the caption on the same photo in the Survival Knife article reads:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survival_knife

 

Aircrew Survival Egress Knife

91-164-Q KNIFE, SURVIVAL, USN,

PILOT

 

Unfortunately many people blindly feel that information found on Wikipedia or other websites is correct and pass it on as I found references on several forums by doing a search for 91-164-Q. We are extremely fortunately to have many contributors on this forum who know the FACTS and are willing to share them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, after quite a bit more digging, I have found why newer collectors are often misled by what they find on the Internet.

 

The photo and information as it appears on Wikipedia and other sources obviously copied from Wikipedia

 

And unfortunately, eBay sellers will perpetuate the misinformation... :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1SG_1st_Cav

This is why the U.S. Militaria Forum Rocks! Be very, very glad we have knowledgeable experts that we can count on to help us with good information.

Danny

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is why the U.S. Militaria Forum Rocks! Be very, very glad we have knowledgeable experts that we can count on to help us with good information.

Danny

I always refer to USMF, Gary Cunningham's Bayonet Points and US military knives as my "go-to" online resources.

 

Full of great info and easily accessible

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I always say my students "DON´T USE WIKIPEDIA FOR YOUR SCHOOL PROJECTS!"

For knives info I always go to Frank Trzaska or Gary Cunnigham´s pages or to USMF. Thanks all experts here for sharing their knowledge!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

SO............What does a real one look like?

 

Someone Please post Picture for reference. I went to Wikipedia, but couldn't find the answer. :unsure::blink::D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry, not sure I understand the question. What does a real "what" look like? There is no real 94-161-Q as that is a museum acquisition number, not a military designation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

OK, From the title I was assuming that it (91-64-Q) was some official military designation. I did not see any references in the initial or any of the following posts for any museum / museums.

 

I am not sure what the purpose was for putting 91-64-Q in the title. Were you trying to get some clarification on it?

 

Take care,

John

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry I wasn't clear. I ASSUMED the 91-64-Q was a military designation, but it actually is the acquisition / accession number of the museum associated with the Curator Branch, Naval History and Heritage Command. It is in no way a military designation, simply the number assigned to the item when added to the museum collection. See post #3 for my reasoning.

 

When the writer of the Wikipedia article wanted an illustration, they simply "borrowed" one from the museum website, along with their description. The Wikipedia article has since been referenced in other websites along with the incorrect designation all indicating that no one knew the difference. That is why many collectors more or less ignore Wikipedia as it is often in error, or at least misleading.

 

To a fair extent, the same fault comes about when someone sees a sale ad on eBay and copies or references the information given, which in a great many cases ranges from misleading to grossly incorrect. Things like that make this forum all the more valuable to collectors as we have probably the greatest group of knowledge collector / experts that can be found anywhere.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gary,

 

Wikipedia is an encyclopedia by the people, for the people, meaning that anybody can write a new article or correct, or add to, an existing article. So if you wish, have the energy and time, you can correct subject article in Wikipedia.

 

Kind regards,

 

Kilian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...