what dictates a successful government issue knife patent

[ka bar]

Good evening to you all.

 

This is a subject which is interesting for me and maybe others.

 

I enjoy collecting WW2 US blades.

 

However, we all have some blades in our collection which are government approved with stamps etc.

 

What determines HOW a certain blade becomes government approved over another which is not.

 

Who determines weight, blade length, type of grip that is needed?

 

Who has the final say as to what is issued and what is not?

 

Is there a proper order of events from concept to being used in the field?

 

I hope to get some good knowledge from this possible discussion.

[SKIPH]

ka bar- Interesting questions. I can only guess that the first issue would be, 1) Is there a need? 2)Who needs this knife, and why? 3)Is there something comparable in the present inventory that could work, and how many available? 4) Weight and blade length. (in WW2 it had a lot to do with what materials were available, and their priorities in the war effort). I think it also depended on purpose and potential use of the knife. 5) All weapons are extensively tested prior to release to the troops, and then maybe monitored closely for problems in design or use. There's some good info around on the M3 Trench Knife development, it will give you a rough idea on the process, and why. The above is just my guess, and I doubt it's accuracy. I'm sure there is way more that goes on in the process. I suspect it would take a book's worth of information to actually see how the process works. SKIP

[ka bar]

Many thanks SKIP for this.

[Les George]

Having been though the process with one of my knives, in broad strokes it usually happens one of two ways...

 

1- military will come to a vendor(s) with a design or just a list of requirements, both physical (weight, color, size, ect) and preformance (i.e. must withstand dropping on point from 5 ft and not become unsuable ) and they will work out a knife that way.

 

2- if the mil has less of an idea of what it wants, it will basicaly ask for ideas from vendors

 

#1 is the most common way and its usually an office guy that makes the finial call. Usually though there is imput from the field its going too. I can give more about how it worked out when I sent though it, if there is interest.

[ka bar]

Les George, thanks for the response.

 

It seems ANY maker has the potential to procure a patent.

 

War must make these companies MILLIONS.

[Les George]

It's not a patent (unless ya'll use it different down under)

 

Doing business with the US government is a pain. In my experience it is not the golden goose that some think it is, but yes, some companies do make millions at it...

[sactroop]

I think when we look specifically at WW2 we see a situation that called for some bending of standard procedure. Seems like many organizations got involved with procurement of knives that wouldn't normally be assigned such tasks. I see it as a big scramble especially during 1942 when we first found ourselves with an unfilled need.

I suppose it also goes back to a question of what exactly does one mean when they refer to a "Government Issue Item"? I can't seem to ever get 100% consensus on what people mean by that.

[bayonetman]

I think when we look specifically at WW2 we see a situation that called for some bending of standard procedure. Seems like many organizations got involved with procurement of knives that wouldn't normally be assigned such tasks. I see it as a big scramble especially during 1942 when we first found ourselves with an unfilled need.

I suppose it also goes back to a question of what exactly does one mean when they refer to a "Government Issue Item"? I can't seem to ever get 100% consensus on what people mean by that.

There have been several attempts to define what is meant by Government Issue, and I agree there is no firm consensus. Technically of course it simply means something the government buys and issues to service members, employes or what have you. There are three main categories, at least when it applies to edged weapons during WW2. These would be knives that were purchased by the government and issued (not sold).

 

1. Standard Issue, Model, etc. Made to an official pattern to which all makers must adhere. This would be things such as the M3 Knife, M1 Bayonet, M8 Scabbard, etc. All items identical and meets the same standards.

 

2. Type Issue, items that meet certain general standards but which can vary somewhat according to maker. The most well known is probably the USN Mark 1 knives, but also most of the pocket knives and the 6 inch blade knives such as the Western Shark, Pal RH36, etc.

 

3. Special Issue, items made for a special purpose or use such as the Smatchet, Raider Knives, Special Forces knives, stilettos, etc.

 

These days of course we have to factor in the "Off The Shelf" items that are commercial items bought with government funds for a particular use or even a single unit. I am sure I am overlooking something obvious.

[dustin]

Good evening to you all.

 

This is a subject which is interesting for me and maybe others.

 

I enjoy collecting WW2 US blades.

 

However, we all have some blades in our collection which are government approved with stamps etc.

 

What determines HOW a certain blade becomes government approved over another which is not.

 

Who determines weight, blade length, type of grip that is needed?

 

Who has the final say as to what is issued and what is not?

 

Is there a proper order of events from concept to being used in the field?

 

I hope to get some good knowledge from this possible discussion.

 

The proper order of events is Need...Design...Test....Manufacture...Distribution then rinse and repeat. The "Need" will dictate what certain weight, length, finish etc. a knife should be. The "Who" is dictated within the particular service or branch all having their own channels of R&D and standardization.

To extend on what Bayonet Man has stated some standards that have been established are General meaning a particular article only has to meet certain basic requirements as established by spec., line item 2 Type Issue but what is more commonly seen in stock classifications is the term Equal to or Better. Typically a specific item is listed but ends with Equal To or Better.

A government agency will release invitations to bid and in many cases companies will hear this through the grapevine and also submit designs as with companies that have been specifically requested this is part of the "Design" and "Test" aspects.

The most import aspect is the "Need" either by specific field requests or a concept within the respective serice or branches development centers that will suit requirements for field use.

[ka bar]

Great answers.

 

My questions have been more than answered.

 

Many thanks.

 

I have a much better understanding now.