barqs19 Posted April 7, 2014 Share #1 Posted April 7, 2014 A buddy of mine wants to sell this to me but I have never heard of this maker. Who is it and is it real? Why is there an English broad arrow on the back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barqs19 Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share #2 Posted April 7, 2014 more pics, will only let me load up one per post for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barqs19 Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share #3 Posted April 7, 2014 another pic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barqs19 Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share #4 Posted April 7, 2014 another pic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barqs19 Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share #5 Posted April 7, 2014 another pic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barqs19 Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share #6 Posted April 7, 2014 one last picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siclfde Posted April 7, 2014 Share #7 Posted April 7, 2014 Strange. HDS (Henry Disston & Sons) is a very rare maker out of Philadelphia. Have never seen or heard of one w the British arrow on it. Markings look right. Send your buddy over to me if you don't want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponyradish Posted April 7, 2014 Share #8 Posted April 7, 2014 I would buy it. Figure out the arrow later. Pony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldabewla Posted April 7, 2014 Share #9 Posted April 7, 2014 The British broad arrow marking was done to it when it was lend lease to British military arsenal, I'm sure during WWII. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barqs19 Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share #10 Posted April 7, 2014 The Brits used these things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted April 7, 2014 Share #11 Posted April 7, 2014 Before you buy it check out the extensive thread on these done by a forum member.I would also PM him for his opinion. One shown in post #38 has the WD and Broad arrow and its not a period piece. http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/196382-m1918-mk-i-trench-knife-comparing-originals-to-your-suspect-knife-thread/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKIPH Posted April 7, 2014 Share #12 Posted April 7, 2014 Looks real to me. But, have never seen a live one, always pictures. Have seen this British stamp on another recently. Don't recall it being an HD&S though. SKIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted April 7, 2014 Share #13 Posted April 7, 2014 Looks real to me. But, have never seen a live one, always pictures. Have seen this British stamp on another recently. Don't recall it being an HD&S though. SKIP Skip Check out Lances(militariaone) thread on the fakes.Post #38 page #2 shows this.Im thinking the handle font is the same.Im sure he will know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
militariaone Posted April 7, 2014 Share #14 Posted April 7, 2014 Greetings all, Doyler nailed it. While this is a different knife than the one posted on my M1918 Mk. I thread, http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/196382-m1918-mk-i-trench-knife-comparing-originals-to-your-suspect-knife-thread/page-2 See post #39. It possesses the same improper space between the U & S fonts on the handle and the same spurious WD Crow's foot marking too. See the below picture, this thread's knife is labeled as Reproduction #2 (very top) and compare the space (red arrows) as seen with the other (bogus) knife in question. This one does possess better depth in it's fonts though. If they fix the anomaly in the fonts then we will have a real problem determining reproduction versus original/real. OK, perhaps we should take this discussion in another direction. The H.D. & S. and O.C.L contracts for the M1918 Mk. I were canceled before any deliveries of these knives were made to the War Department (due to the end of the war). So at best, very limited quantities were made and without profit. If they were truly WW2 "Lend Lease" items how did they get into the U.S. Government's hands (if they never accepted delivery) for subsequent delivery to the UK? Why were vast quantities of the L. F. & C. variants melted down for their Bronze (a strategic metal during WW2) content, and yet I have never seen or heard of a similarly marked (WD Broad Arrow) L. F. & C. variant. The U.S. Government possessed many thousands of these knives and could have sent them to the UK if desired, so (again) why no L.F. & C. WD Broad Arrow marked examples in premier British Collections. The English are some very serious knife collectors and surely would have posted examples of these marked knives if they existed in any reasonable quantity... or in any quantity. Yes, pass this knife off to the others who may want it, folks see what the want to see and P.T. Barnum remains right today as ever. At least the commando that's cranking these reproductions out puts the WD Broad Arrow on them as it will help the informed steer clear of them. Regards, Lance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
militariaone Posted April 7, 2014 Share #15 Posted April 7, 2014 Greetings Barqs19, I'd request to ask if you can ask your buddy where did he obtain the knife? I'd like to know the origin (Country or State) of this variant as this is the second one viewed in a few weeks. It sort of reminds me of where helmet fakers post an item and then allow everyone to rip on the item so that they may improve upon their later efforts. I'm not saying this is the case here, but in a few weeks when we see one with the corrected "U" & "S" fonts' spacings then I'll have a better idea of what we are dealing with. Just asking for you to ask about its origin, so as to figure out what is behind this batch of reproduced knives. Regards, Lance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKIPH Posted April 7, 2014 Share #16 Posted April 7, 2014 Oh boy!! Just checked out an article by Frank Trzaska "Reference Book, and Bruce Canfields "WW1 Inf. WPNS". Canfield's example looks like the one in question, w/ the wide gap between the "U" & "S". Also no visible "." period. Frank's looks good. SKIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
militariaone Posted April 7, 2014 Share #17 Posted April 7, 2014 Oh boy!! Just checked out an article by Frank Trzaska "Reference Book, and Bruce Canfields "WW1 Inf. WPNS". Canfield's example looks like the one in question, w/ the wide gap between the "U" & "S". Also no visible "." period. Frank's looks good. SKIP Greetings Skip, If you look at the referenced knife in Canfield's WWI WPN'S Book, the space you have referred to is on an L. F. & C. made variant (I had to break out the reading glasses myself). So, all is well (no drama) there. Regards, Lance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKIPH Posted April 7, 2014 Share #18 Posted April 7, 2014 Lance- Double checked. It's the HD&S on page 30. Check it out. SKIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
militariaone Posted April 7, 2014 Share #19 Posted April 7, 2014 Lance- Double checked. It's the HD&S on page 30. Check it out. SKIP Rechecked it Skip, you are correct (I prostrate myself before your correctness) I was stuck on page 27's examples. Looks like the H.D. & S. shown on page 30 has been ground flat (originally, an L. F. & C.) and re-struck/enhanced with the rarer marks. I just noticed how the other two examples discussed barely show the handle on an angle that shows the flatness I've referred too... interesting. You da man, Skip! Lance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted April 7, 2014 Share #20 Posted April 7, 2014 Good catch Gentlemen THanks Lance and Skip for your expertise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKIPH Posted April 7, 2014 Share #21 Posted April 7, 2014 Ron- I wouldn't call it expertise, at least in my case. Have never seen the real deal, and am merely relying on other folks work and pictures. I probably wouldn't know a fake HD&S if I had one in hand. Lance-"I prostate myself before your correctness" ?????? LOL!! SKIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
militariaone Posted April 7, 2014 Share #22 Posted April 7, 2014 Good catch Gentlemen THanks Lance and Skip for your expertise Greetings Ron, Always happy to discuss these knives as they are my very favorite type and there's always something "new" afoot to discuss about them. You and Skip are both M3 Gods, I'm always floored by the level of detail you gents go into when discussing them. One day... I'll take more of an interest in M3s... once I win the lottery. Regards, Lance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRE66 Posted April 8, 2014 Share #23 Posted April 8, 2014 The blade was the giveaway for me. It's definitely the stainless steel blade from the Japanese reproduction made in the late 60-70's time period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barqs19 Posted April 8, 2014 Author Share #24 Posted April 8, 2014 So do you guys think it's real or not? He took it apart and there is no JAPAN on the inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted April 8, 2014 Share #25 Posted April 8, 2014 Ron- I wouldn't call it expertise, at least in my case. Have never seen the real deal, and am merely relying on other folks work and pictures. I probably wouldn't know a fake HD&S if I had one in hand. Lance-"I prostate myself before your correctness" ?????? LOL!! SKIP Yeah these thing throw me.The fakes have been around for years.I posted the one marked SPAIN in a thread here.I had gotten that thing over 25 years ago or longer.Never gave it a thought.Came out of a little gunshow. I can tell you a lot about nothing and it usually is just fertilizer for the garden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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