75 replies to this topic

[craig_pickrall]

I picked this one up from an unknown source. i would like to give credit but I can't.

[craig_pickrall]

This is the OSS pic.

[craig_pickrall]

I really hate to use this set of pics but it does prove what the 3 pocket, 1 snap pouch was intended for. This is a set of pics that belong to a MCF member named army_junk. In order to see these pics on MCF you need to join, because of that I can not post a link. This set of pics are of experimental equipment, in this case it is grenade carriers. There are several designs included. Please note that for the 3 pocket pouch sample were made with both the flap turned up and turned down.

[craig_pickrall]

[craig_pickrall]

[Johan Willaert]

I cannot post still images at this point, but those that have the DVD, it's on:

DVD Color of War Part 1
Chapter 3 Hope & Despair
Scene 1
Between 6Min51Seconds and 6Min57Seconds
Between 7Min01Seconds and 7Min06Seconds

Same GI's walk thru a French field. Two have the three cell pouch, one on his right, the other on his left.. One has a M1 Carbine and M28 pack, the other a bandoleer and M1 Rifle..

[bfryar44]

Here ya go Johan.

I screen capped this last night but it didn't turn out as well as I had hoped. You can see the Rifleman at the far right wearing one of the three cell pouches with single LTD.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/bfryar44/Color%20Photos/PDVD_073.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/bfryar44/Color%20Photos/PDVD_074.jpg
"The Color of War" DVD.

[glenm]

Maybe it's just me, but I fail to see how the pouches marked 3-a and 3-b can be for grenades - they aren't big enough?

Also, the ones in the last pic of the experimental pouches - they aren't grenade shaped surely?

Is it definite that these pouches are supposed to be for grenades (i.e. are the photos marked as such from an original source, as opposed to what the collector thinks)?

Cheers,
Glen.

[craig_pickrall]

I tried to figure out which pics you were refering to as 3A and 3B. Finally found them. That is an M36 Musette bag. The open area in the back is fairly large and could hold several grenades. It would be worn as an across the shoulder bag with the universal sling.

I did not have access to the original photos. Army_junk broke them into groups and posted them. This particular group was refered to as grenade carriers. More than that I can not tell you. The last pouch may be for canister grenades. That is just my guess though. The original source is supposed to be a binder holding a massive set of experimental grear photos and the source of this binder is the US Army. Again that is all I know.

[artu44]

I picked this one up from an unknown source. i would like to give credit but I can't.

I think it was posted by Charlie on that summer topic on MCF about the hamletic question: Frag grenades or first aid ?

[glenm]

The pouches I was referring to are the ones in the last pic on Page 1, stencilled on the back of them "3-A" and "3-B" (these are the ones with three rows of 2 pockets with individual pointed flaps, same as the one in the pic above but which only has two rows).

No way are those square-shaped pockets big enough for a grenade.

[artu44]

Armyjunk is a guy who likes share with others his powerful documentation and you can swear pics posted are referring to grenades. He did also on MCF an excellent display of pics reerred to 1912 cavalry experimental equipment.

[craig_pickrall]

It looks like to me that the 3A and 3B pouches have grenades laid in on an angle with the fuses overlapping.

[glenm]

Of course, there is also the possibility that along with the Musette Bag, WWI Grenade Vest and Ammunition Bag being used as potential carriers for Grenades, the team doing the experiments included a "triple first aid pouch" in as a potential carrier of grenades......

[Ricardo]

Hi All,

Some images to refernece from book "The World War II GI - US Army Uniforms 1941-45":

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/7333/wwf12hx.jpg

Best regards,

Ricardo.

..

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/3482/wwf28am.jpg

[craig_pickrall]

Of course, there is also the possibility that along with the Musette Bag, WWI Grenade Vest and Ammunition Bag being used as potential carriers for Grenades, the team doing the experiments included a "triple first aid pouch" in as a potential carrier of grenades......

If that is the case then how do you account for the same case but with the pockets upside down?

[glenm]

If that is the case then how do you account for the same case but with the pockets upside down?

Resewing of the belt hook and straps from their original positions?

I'm just wondering about the fact that some of the items have the U.S. stamp on them, which would imply that they were production items, or at least made out of production items.

The U.S. on the triple "first aid" pouch with the reversed belt hook/strap positions is obviously upside down in the photo, and would imply that it is one of the normal pouches that has simply been reworked for the trials for potential grenade carriers.

I would also throw into the discussion that both the triple "first aid" pouch and the triple grenade pouch were first produced in 1944, and it seems odd to have two competing designs for the same pouch in production and distribution if they are indeed supposed to be one and the same pouch with simply different flaps (even though the actual pocket sizes are also different of course).

Cheers,
Glen.

[craig_pickrall]

Do you think the tie down straps were there to keep those HEAVY first aid packets from beating against someone's leg or maybe to keep those REAL HEAVY grenades from beating them? In the earlier pics why did a BAR man and an OSS man need so many first aid packets. I think if I were them I would want grenades.

I can not see a US stencil in an upside down position on my monitor.

[Charlie Flick]

Well, this really did turn out to be a can of worms. Thanks for all of the informed replies.

Just to give this bit of a PTO flavor I am posting below a pic showing a Marine BAR man with the 2-cell pouch. Noteworthy also are the Jungle First Aid Kit and the BAR bandolier. I have posted this pic before on other Forums, so apologies to all who may have already seen it. I have had this digital pic for some time but did not record the source of it.

Charlie

Edited by Charlie Flick, 24 January 2007 - 09:32 AM.

[glenm]

It should be right about........................................here.... above the 14" mark

And we're not dicussing what they were use for in the field... we're discussing what they were made for.

By the way, the BAR gunner on page 1 appears to have much heavier items in the pockets (HEAVY GRENADES perhaps since we're writing in capitals...) than the OSS man, who appears to be carrying something LIGHTER.

Cheers,
Glen.

[bilko *Deceased*]

Do you think its for when the pouch is shortened when carrying less aid packets/grenades then the U.S. would be strait and can still be tied off to whatever?.

I can see the way of thinking with a up side down pouch,you would be pulling down at the same time the contence falls into the hand,Thus removing the pull up to open and then trust hand in to get contence. But on a practical side of things if you got a flap hooked up on something and it was pulled open by mistake then you loose your gear.

[artu44]

I'd say that a good thumb rule could be made observing period pics. A pouch full of stuff will appears different if filled with square f.a. packets or ovoidal grenades.

[General Apathy]

Hi Everyone, Sorry, in my previous post on page one of this topic I forgot to include a photograph of a belt that was mentioned in the quote below. The statement about this belt was that we all know this belt to be a WWI medical Corp belt. In my earlier quote I stated that another member on this forum had made the statement that the Marines in early WWII used it as a grenade belt. So what we could be talking about here is that both items were intended for medical use and ended up with grenades. Lots of things were used in a way not inteneded, let's call that American ingenuity, as in the second quote below, what other uses were the M-1 helmet put to. Until specific paperwork appears this will rage on, but let's keep a civil debate about it, please

QUOTES ATTACHED. On the flip side of this question, on this forum in a different section there is a post about Marines in early WWII using left over WWI corpsmans bandage belts to carry grenades, again I believe he states anecdotal veteran statement. How many anecdotal statements do you get about the helmet, headwear, cooking-pot, digging foxholes, washing bowl, etc, etc.

In 1979 I attended an Airborne reunion in Nijmegen Holland, I questioned a vet as to what he was wearing by 1944 in that area. He stated this large bag with lots of straps, I suggested the M-1928 pack. He was adament it was not that, I sensed I was pushing too hard so stopped questioning. five years later I turn up a photo, they were using ' jungle' packs, so do we say he was wrong that they were only used in Jungles, because that's what they are called, and he could not have used it, as he was ' Airborne' Cheers ( Lewis )
[/quote]

[dustin]

Question: does a smoke grenade fit into the two snap grenade pouch? if it does could it be plausible that this carrier had a duel function smoke/frag genade,the grenade carrier in question could be just for grenades as it is smaller and has one intended function.
As I recall for the two snap pouch the frag does fit loosly and two fit in one pocket barely or it could be that they barely do not.

[coolman]

i have a DVD of the "world at war" series about the battle for manila late 1944 or maybe very early 1945

on a scene there is heavy street fighting and an american soldier with a flamethrower with the late war 2 dots 3 pocket carrier on the left hip of the M1923 belt burning japanese around...
another soldier runs crossing a road under japanese fire and the 3 pocket carrier bounching left & right as the straps were not tied...so the late war model have seen action in the PTO philipinnes long before korea as most ppl think...simply in korea they were very comon & almost every soldier had one while in WWII out of 300 soldiers only one had the carrier thats why we dont have many pictures of these...they were in very short supply in WWII as they were very new & they were not many around yet...the atomic bomb eliminated the need for their fast distribution to the troops..

i have not seen yet the late carrier in europe..but maybe they were there very late deep into germany or maybe not

as on the early 1 dot model in question i think it is definitely for grenades...the bandages are not any heavy & they dont need leg tie straps so it is logical to be for grenades but maybe not only for grenades-maybe its dual purpose & the early pattern was intented for both carlisle or grenades...simply it is the early pattern abandoned later in favour of the late 2 dot pattern...that's all guys..just a differend specification in the production of the grenade carrier...seems to be all made by only one company the J.Q.M.D. all the samples i'v seen are mint!!!

i have seen greek- portuguese & french army copies of the late carriers