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Mountain & Ski troop equipment


SteveR
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10thMountainWWII

I had to do a double take on the 6-3 marking. I'm sure this means 6 feet 3 inches in length (which is actually very short for WWII skis). I originally thought it was a G-3 marking which would have been the training shop/section for the Mountain Training Center. I can easily solve this by simply measuring the skis. Of course that would involve getting them out of storage. It's wishful thinking, I know.

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My take was that they were 6'9", which was the shortest of the commonly known ski lengths. (6'9", 7'0", 7'3" and 7'6" being the sizes I've seen in WWII dated skis) 6'3" would be a bit unusual I would think.

 

I think Cpt. John is still around - in Walden, NY. I sent an email, but have rec'd no response to date.

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Charlie Flick

Guys:

 

I don't collect Mountain/Ski Troop stuff myself but I thought that the attached photo I ran across would be of interest here. Not sure what these guys are doing but it looks like they are setting up some type of signal equipment. Photo is dated 3-13-39 so that has got to be pretty early for Ski equipment. What's with those wacky hats?

 

Regards,

Charlie Flick

 

USskitroops3-13-39.jpg

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10thMountainWWII

Yeah, 1939 was pre-mountain troops. The Army really had not even thought twice about mountain troops at this point, let alone equipment for them. Those hats look like an early version of the "Cap, Winter, Lambskin Lined," which was used early on around 1941-1942 by the mountain troops and possibly by the 87th during their invasion of Kiska, Alaska. Did anyone else happen to notice that the entire signal piece of equipment is on a sled made out of three skis attached together? I thought that was pretty neat.

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10thMountainWWII

TenthA86-Dave,

 

I've always known that the skis primarily came in those four lengths but these seem pretty legit to not be WWII originals given their markings, age, and design. They may not have been standard issue given their size. I can only think of two other possibilities.

 

1. They were custom ordered for a shorter individual who may have been an instructor or higher ranking person, and who would be on the slopes daily due to his job or rank and needed something that would fit him best instead of a the standard run of the mill skis.

 

2. They are indeed a prototype ski given the "Wedge" bindings and a standard length was not taken into account when produced in accordance with quartermaster regulations.

 

I've never seen the manufacturer of these skis on other skis before either. (S. L. Allen and Co. Inc. Phila., PA) Of course most skis produced for the Army were made by Northland since that's where the original contract for Army skis originated and initial recommendations called for Northland skis given their quality and design.

 

I sure hope Major Woodward responds as he was there during the testing and writing of all of the equipment manuals at Camp Hale.

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still no word from John, but can report that SL Allen was a WWII contractor on skis. Supposedly the Co Ski Museum has 20+ mfr's on recorrd for skis in the 1940 to 1945 period - wish I had that list! SL Allen made the Flexable Flyer sleds, so would be a natural for skis in wartime.

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10thMountainWWII
still no word from John, but can report that SL Allen was a WWII contractor on skis. Supposedly the Co Ski Museum has 20+ mfr's on recorrd for skis in the 1940 to 1945 period - wish I had that list! SL Allen made the Flexable Flyer sleds, so would be a natural for skis in wartime.

 

 

Dave,

 

Good to know they truly were a contractor for skis. You will indeed have to acquire that list of manufacturers of WWII skis from the Co Ski Museum. I assume you are talking about the museum in Vail?

 

I still hope we hear back from John but at this point I guess we can't count on it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just to add my 2 cents:

 

Speaking about WWII army stuff it is always tricky to say "this was only thing adopted, used etc."...

US Army obviously used few types of bindings - they really used them, they were not only tested. Looking through period 10th Mountain division Camp Hale pictures you can see mostly two "older" types of binding. These bindings were made mostly by Dovre Company and were U.S. marked. For some reason on the pictures there are none Kandahar type bindings visible... (OK, sometimes it is hard to judge due to the low quality of pictures)

 

For reference:

 

On the first picture you can see two older types of bindings, as seen on http://www.robertsarmory.com/10th2.htm (I call them "older" type, but I do not know which type was adopted earlier. But unlike these two types Kandahar type bindings was used till 1950´s, so I just call Kandahar a "later type".)

 

Then few ID´d 10th Mountain division pictures from Camp Hale...

post-2328-1316176553.jpg

post-2328-1316176644.jpg

post-2328-1316176703.jpg

post-2328-1316176786.jpg

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This is probably especially true of units like 10th Mountain, who experimented with equipment and uniforms for most of it's existance. I've worked with the vets for almost 30 years, and they argue about uniforms - like in the photo above. One will say "we had Mountain Jackets" and his buddy in the same unit will say "I never had that - I had the Parsons Jaket!" Gee - both are correct!

 

Variations, deviations and military purchase of existing civilian equipment were all seen in wartime - which is what keeps this hobby exciting. (that and the constant exposure to new information!) What other variatiions are out there?

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10thMountainWWII

I've been learning a lot and have started to compile a list of manufacturers just by researching old advertisements in the ski annuals from companies that stated they made ski bindings, skis, or poles for the military. I guess if we can take them at their word in these advertisements that they had contracts with the Army during WWII, this is one way to compile a list.

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  • 3 years later...

To revive a topic on the US Army ski....came across to canvas straps about 5 feet long and 3 -4 inches wide with fur stitched to the backside. the fur was thought to be beaver or seal....the tip of the strap had a loop and the end of the strap had a long canvas/web tail.

 

3 Mil surplus collectors were contemplating the use of said straps...a set of two, with USGI buckles and hardware etc....someone thought they might be used on ski's to to go uphill????

 

any idea...wish I had pics could get some next week...

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phantomfixer,

They are what's known as "ski-runners" and would provide you traction when going up a slope. The GI pair I have are marked "U.S." and made of white material, but I think the "fur" is probably synthetic, as it is white also. If I recall correctly, they are listed in the 1943 quartermaster catalog.

Regards, Paul

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thanks Paul...these are green webbing with US style buckles...the fur is very short, stiff and brown with black mixed in...maybe civilian??? no markings on them....thanks

John

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...

The "Holy Grail" of Coleman Stoves, the first model 1941 Stove as issued to Mtn Ski Troops:

(Note: The stove is actually dated 1941.)

post-6837-0-39375500-1428519568.jpg

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1941 U.S. stamped early pattern skis. These have been restored, but I was careful to save the 12-41 dated stamp.

The Northland Bindings are also stamped U.S. This should settle the question as to if this early pattern with the raised

ridge was Gov"t issue.

post-6837-0-76869000-1428600135.jpg

post-6837-0-48914700-1428600168.jpg

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