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Grad Wings - Is Coro the Manufacturer For This Pattern?


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#51 Tim B

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 08:29 AM

So, considering that a product is indicative of their company’s product line and Coro prided itself in quality items, would it be a big stretch to say they made this sweetheart wing based on something they came up with themselves or, someone else’s design?  As authorized producers of military insignia, I would tend to think the design was theirs.

The next two composite photographs show the sweetheart wing between the last two bombardier wings shown.   IMO, the die is a near perfect match and too close IMO, to be coincidence.  I can understand the use of the pin vice clutch back on a sweetheart item as the pin is typically what was used on these type items.

 

Front comparison:

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#52 Tim B

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 08:34 AM

And the reverse comparison.  The similarties are just too close not to consider the possibility here.

 

I understand, not 100% concrete evidence, which we may not have at this point in time, but I think it has a lot of potential showing that Coro did produce this pattern of bombardier wings.

 

If we can sort of agree with that, then I think its reasonable to agree they produced the other wings shown that also have the repeating pattern of die characteristics.

 

Thoughts?

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#53 bschwartz

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 11:18 AM

Tim,

 

    I don't have much to add to the discussion as it's something I've really not spent a lot of time thinking about but I wanted to say it's nice to see someone have so much passion about the humble graduation pattern wing.  I don't use the word "humble" in a belittling sense at all since you see these wings a lot on uniforms.  I've had the great good fortune to meet many WW2 vets and see their uniforms and what they wore and over half of them usually have a so called graduation pattern wing on them.  You see other makers of course but it's much more common to find one of these style wings on a uniform than a Luxenberg or a Blackinton.  You've provided a well thought out case for your hypothesis and are clearly very passionate about the topic.  Linking it back to the sweetheart item on my site seems like another strong indicator for your thoughts.  Ironically that was a wing I got from one of my old bosses.  He had received as a gift from one of his old neighbors years ago and since he was a Civil War collector he thought it would be better off going to me.  Obviously it's not worth a lot of money but it sure seemed to have some value to this discussion.  He'd be happy to know that since he was a researcher himself and loved digging into the history of things.  

 

Bob



#54 Tim B

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 02:24 PM

Bob,

 

Thank you for the nice comments.

 

As I've mentioned before, I am not a primarily "wings" guy, but I do like to get into the items I collect and understanding maker's, the hallmarks, and the period they were used does get my interests up.  I see a lot of guys that stick pretty much to their respective or specialized area of collecting and I tend to bounce all over between medals, badges and other items.  That has allowed me to find out more information on hallmarks and such, which has proven somewhat advantageous when it comes to identifying an obscure manufacturer of militaria, like Irons & Russell.

 

Of course, some would say this theory of mine is not proof in any way and they would be correct.  It's just my opinion at the moment and we would need to see more wings to compare against each other.  I think weights and dimensions could be somewhat important, just to see if there were die differences.  Coro worked out of several locations and who's to say the differences we see might not be related to that aspect.  I continually see differences in the Amcraft series of wings and it makes me wonder if those are not related to different manufacturing sites as well.  We may never know the whole story but, it's worth discussing I think.

 

It will be interesting to see if someone shows another sweetheart wing that compares to one of the other wing patterns and if that one also carries the Coro hallmark.  That, IMO, would be another nail in the coffin.

 

Thanks again for following the thread and again, great site you have there!

 

Tim



#55 rustywings

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 07:18 AM

Tim,

 

...I wanted to say it's nice to see someone have so much passion about the humble graduation pattern wing.  I don't use the word "humble" in a belittling sense at all since you see these wings a lot on uniforms.  I've had the great good fortune to meet many WW2 vets and see their uniforms and what they wore and over half of them usually have a so called graduation pattern wing on them.  You see other makers of course but it's much more common to find one of these style wings on a uniform than a Luxenberg or a Blackinton.  You've provided a well thought out case for your hypothesis and are clearly very passionate about the topic.  Linking it back to the sweetheart item on my site seems like another strong indicator for your thoughts... 

 

Bob

 

I agree with you Bob.



#56 rathbonemuseum.com

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 09:35 AM

I want to add my thanks as well. Tim, I will post the group I have of that pattern as soon as I get them shot.



#57 Tim B

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 09:42 AM

More views over the weekend, but as not much is being added for discussion, I would like to conitnue at this point.

 

My original intentions were to move on and discuss the later produced wings that TC shown (with Coro’s 12C hallmark) and save the AG wings for last.  However, after Russ posted that terrific AG wing on the previous page which I think many have not seen, pattern wise, it may be better to go directly into the AG wing series at this point so the topic remains organized and on the pattern currently being discussed.  We can move on to the newer pattern later in the thread.

 

On the aerial gunner sets of wings; I would love to see a solid reverse example with the double sterling mark, if they exist.  Until Russ posted that wing, I was beginning to think they did not exist and the only examples out there may be these two-piece wings without the target, as they look similar in details on the front.  Now, I am not so sure exactly what to think.  Are the two-piece wings from the same manufacturer, or someone else, or is it a case of experimenting on design to see what was the most economical to produce?

 

Anyway, I am hoping to see someone else post a solid AG wing similar to the example Russ posted.  I don’t think many of that pattern exist, or we would see more showing up periodically.  I have asked if other collectors had seen a solid version but nothing ever came of the requests, so I honestly began to feel they did not exist and now, they most certainly must have.

 

Here’s that wing Russ posted back in posts 33/34 again.  Note the similar die patterns.

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  • Aerial Gunner - unk Russ9.JPG


#58 Tim B

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 09:43 AM

And here is an example of the two-piece AG without target.  You can see similar traits in the notches but the feathering is not really a match.

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  • Aerial Gunner Wing - unk9.JPG


#59 Tim B

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 09:45 AM

Of note, here are two examples, also of a pattern without the target however, IMO, these of the Levelle pattern.  Was there a connection here, I don’t know?

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  • Aerial Gunner Wings - unmk Levelle.JPG


#60 Tim B

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 09:46 AM

And the 2nd (Levelle) example

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#61 Tim B

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 09:47 AM

I want to add my thanks as well. Tim, I will post the group I have of that pattern as soon as I get them shot.

 

Thank you!

 

Looking forward to what you have to show.

 

Tim



#62 Tim B

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 09:49 AM

Note that all three examples with the "no-target" have a shorter bullet.



#63 Tim B

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 07:48 PM

Just a quick side note concerning the possible "progression" of dies and associated cost-savings on raw materials that I thought might be of interest.

 

Here's a comparison of several navigator wings.  I compared weights of my solid backed version with three provided by Wharfmaster.  W was kind enough to provide the weights in another thread and I thought to include it here.  It might be interesting to see similar comparisons with the other patterns.

 

What I found interesting was that the hollowback example was a hair slightly more in weight compared to the earlier CB example that just had the center scooped out.  Another aspect to consider?

 

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#64 Wharfmaster

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 08:48 PM

Another example, short bullet, no target.

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#65 Wharfmaster

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 08:48 PM

Reverse

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#66 Tim B

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 07:29 PM

I was reading some older threads here where these two-piece wings were thought to be possibly Orber.  Any thoughts on that?

 

I came across these aircrew wings listed currently on our favorite auction site.  Note the wings notches and feathering; it's almost identical IMO.  So, perhaps these two-piece wings are not related at all to the pattern of wings that started this thread and we need to concentrate on the examples similar to the wings posted by Russ that have the correct pattern.

 

Thoughts???  Anyone...? :huh:

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#67 Tim B

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 07:09 PM

So, as the weekend approaches, let's put aside these two-piece wings and discount them as part of this series unless something really tell-tale comes along to make us think otherwise.  I just think we see too many differences in quality of strike and finish to continue thinking they are from the same manufacturer at this point.

 

Back to Russ' Aerial Gunner wing; does anyone else have one similar to his?



#68 Tim B

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Posted 28 July 2015 - 12:50 PM

Never did see much on this topic so thought I would add one more comparison to the discussion.

 

A shirt size bombardier wing with the same pattern and Coro hallmark.  I know its not proof positive but I tend to think its a pretty good assumption at this point.

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#69 Tim B

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Posted 28 July 2015 - 12:51 PM

Closer on the hallmark

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#70 Marksman

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Posted 28 July 2015 - 09:48 PM

Yes it is,

Nice wing btw :)

#71 Marksman

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 12:06 AM

Any News here on this?


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