EIB vs CIB

[swag]

I read an interesting thread a while back about the EIB vs the CIB. Anyhoodle, the thread kinda turned into a "the CIB is better than and EIB because you earn the CIB in combat, the EIB is just a test you have to take to earn."

Well I came across a pretty cool document that I thought would have been great for that thread, but of course I can't find the thread now. At any rate, the document is cool in its own right and I think after you read it you'll agree that the EIB can be just as powerful as a CIB.

 

[Allan H.]

That is a cool document. Originally, the EIB was going to be given for satisfactory performance in combat. The wreath was going to be added for superior performance in combat. I think this is what you have here.

 

As an aside, I know several veterans who were far more proud of the fact that they had earned the EIB as it is very difficult to earn and usually, less than 10% of those testing will earn one. That being said, soldiers with 11 series MOS's qualified for the CIB by sitting in an infantry unit in a combat zone.

 

Allan

[skautdog]

That's the first I've seen documentation of EIB awarded for "...action against the enemy..." Interesting the Order is dated 1944 and the action was December 7, 1941. I believe the CIB was established in October 1943.

 

I was awarded the CIB in Vietnam (along with thousands of other folks). I have always respected anyone awarded the EIB. The EIB is awarded only after passing a very demanding test regarding all phases of Infantry requirements. It is not an easy test and passing it takes many months of specific preparation. Let's face it. Essentially to be awarded the CIB all one has to do is be in an Infantry MOS in combat for 30 days and be in contact with the enemy. I believe that most folks awarded the CIB could not pass the EIB test.

 

Ken

[RedLegGI]

When I was around post in Wainwright most of the infantrymen would rock EIB's as opposed to CIB's as it was a tougher badge to get. From what was explained to me that if you have contact with the enemy you get the CIB but the EIB is a whole lot of work and they take pride in it.

 

 

Anyway, that's what I was told.

[Rakkasan187]

I would like to share my experience with the Expert Infantryman's Badge. I am a Cold War veteran, which means I was in the Army during a period when Grenada had just finished and Panama would not come for another 5 years. During that time, we trained, and trained hard. During the training cycle everyone in our Infantry Company who did not have the EIB would go to training. There were round robin stations with the EIB tasks that we would practice until it was second nature. The cadre would point out steps we missed and other tips so we would get it right on the day of the skills test.

 

Prior to getting to the skills testing each Soldier had to qualify with the M16A1 rifle. The Soldier had to score EXPERT, which if I recall correctly back in the 80's was 36 hits out of 40. If you did not qualify expert, you were not eligible to test. Next was the Army Physical Readiness Test, (APRT) the Army standard was to score 80 points in each event, push ups, sit ups and the 2 mile run. A score of 240 was minimum standards. Most companies had their own standards which was usually points in each event for a score of 240. The maximum points was 300 at that time. soldiers who "maxed" the PT test were allowed to wear the Army Fitness patch on their PT uniforms.

 

So with those 2 prerequisites met, next was day and night land navigation. Both were individual events and again it was a GO or NO GO, no make ups, no exceptions. Not only did you have to navigate to each of the points and record the stake number, but you had to identify the terrain feature at the stake and you had to ID at least 4 of the 5 terrain features and properly record your 8 digit grid coordinates from start to finish. You had to complete this course in 3 hours. If you came in at 3 hours and 3 seconds, you did not qualify. (Standards were very high and were enforced).

 

The night land navigation course was just as demanding. It was located in a different area from the day course and you had to locate 3 points, all within 2 hours.

 

Another prerequisite which you had to have a minimum score of 80% was the SQT or Skills Qualification Test. This was an annual test that tested your knowledge at your specific skill level. Skill level 1 was Private to Specialist. Skill Level 2, was for Sergeant, Skill Level 3 for Staff Sergeant and finally, skill level 4 was for Sergeant First Class. A written exam was issued each year and each year the test questions were different. As a new Private who came into the unit after the test was administered, the Company Commander could waive that requirement for the new Soldier's so they could test. A waiver letter was sent to the EIB Board President, usually the Battalion Command Sergeant Major or the Brigade Command Sergeant Major or Operations Sergeant Major tasked with conducting the EIB testing.

 

After all of these requirements were successfully accomplished by each individual it was time to go to the EIB skills site. Each year the skills tested would vary, but all fields of the infantryman's job duties would be tested.

 

Here is an example of the skills that were tested when I was a candidate for the EIB:

 

First Aid:

Apply a Field Pressure Dressing

Apply a tourniquet

Perform Cardio Pulmonary Resuscitation (CPR)

Prevent Shock

 

NBC:

Put on, wear and remove the M17 series protective mask

Administer Nerve agent antidote to self

Decontaminate skin and personal equipment

Put on and wear protective clothing

 

Survival Techniques:

Camouflage self and individual equipment

Camouflage equipment

 

Basic Individual Techniques:

Move under direct fire using the high crawl, low crawl and 3 to 5 second rush techniques

Estimate range

Use visual signals to control movement

communicate using visual signally techniques

Locate a Target by shift from a known point

Call for/adjust indirect fire

Construct individual fighting position

Identify threat vehicles and weapons

 

Communications:

Operate as a station in a radio net

Encode and Decode messages using KTC 600 D Tactical Operations Code

Place an AN PRC 77 Radio into operation

 

Map Reading:

Identify Terrain features on a Map

Determine an enemy target location using grid coordinates

 

Weapons:

Load, reduce a stoppage and clear an M16A1 rifle

Engage enemy targets with Hand grenades

Install/recover M18 claymore mine

Install/recover the M16a1 anti personnel mine

Install/recover a mechanical ambush

Install an M21 metallic anti tank mine

Disarm an M21 metallic anti tank mine

Place an M47 Dragon Anti Tank system into operation

Perform operator maintenance on an M203 grenade launcher and 40 mm ammunition

Prepare an M72A2 LAW for firing

Apply immediate action to correct a malfunction on an M72A2 LAW

Disassemble and assemble an M60 Machine gun and perform operator maintenance

Load, reduce a stoppage and clear an M60 machine gun

Load, reduce a stoppage and clear a .50 caliber machine gun

Set head space and timing on a .50 caliber machine gun

 

Security and Intelligence:

Process known or suspected enemy personnel, documents and equipment

Collect/report information (SALUTE report)

 

Successful completion of these events were necessary to advance to the final two tests:

 

The 12 mile road march with combat pack, LBE, weapon and M1 steel helmet. The weight of the rucksack was 35 pounds. Immediately after crossing the finish line, the final test was to disassemble and assemble and perform a functions check of your M16A1 rifle within 4 minutes.

 

These are some of things that I had to do to complete and earn my Expert Infantry Badge. There are very few candidates that can complete all stations with a first time GO. There was only the opportunity to retest on 3 stations. If you got a NO GO on a station you could retest, and if you got a go you would move on to the next station, but if you got 2 more NO GO's at any station, you were disqualified and were not eligible for the EIB that year. You would have to go through the entire process again the following year.

 

I was very lucky to get my EIB the 2nd year I tried. As a new private right out of basic, the first year I had tried, I was unsuccessful at the call for fire station. That station was very difficult and rather than try to get a GO at that station first thing in the morning, I went through almost all of the other stations and received GO's. I was very close to getting my EIB in the first year but came up just a little short.

 

The following year (1986) I was prepared and was awarded the EIB after successful completion of all tasks.

 

Later that year I reenlisted for the Berlin Brigade and I reported in February 1987. I was one of only a handful of other Soldier's in the company with the EIB and I was selected by the Brigade Command Sergeant Major to be on the Berlin brigade EIB test committee/staff. The first year that I was on the staff, I was at the First Aid station doing the same skills that I tested on. The second year I was at the camouflage station and the M60 machine gun stations.

 

I am proud to have earned the Expert Infantryman's Badge.

 

The books pictured are the EIB test booklet (white) and the Infantryman's Soldier's Manual of Common Tasks, for skill levels 1 thru 4. This book was a study guide used for studying for the SQT test as well as the EIB test. All of the steps for each task were listed in order and there were many illustrations to help the Infantryman study.

 

The EXPERT INFANTRY BADGE pictured was the one I was awarded after completion of the EIB testing at Fort Campbell, Kentucky while assigned as a machine gunner with C Company 3rd Battalion 187th Infantry Regiment (RAKKASANS)

 

Hope this is a little more information for those who do not know what the Infantry Soldier does on a day to day basis. As I mentioned I earned mine during the Cold War period, but in comparison with the Infantrymen that are in harms way today, the same skills that are tested to earn the EIB are constantly being applied by those Infantrymen who earn their Combat Infantry Badges. Some of the equipment and tactics have changed over the years, but the application and knowledge of applying these skills and tasks has not. I am proud of all my Brothers who have earned either the EIB or CIB or both. Thank you Infantrymen for what you do...

 

Leigh

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[skautdog]

Leigh,

 

Thanks for adding specificity to my post above. You definitely demonstrated that my comment, "..it is not an easy test and passing it takes many months of specific preparation" was an oversimplification. Thank you for adding the much needed clarification.

 

Ken

[Rakkasan187]

Leigh,

 

Thanks for adding specificity to my post above. You definitely demonstrated that my comment, "..it is not an easy test and passing it takes many months of specific preparation" was an oversimplification. Thank you for adding the much needed clarification.

 

Ken

 

Ken,

 

Thank you for your Service and comments..

 

Leigh

 

[Hatz50228]

When I was around post in Wainwright most of the infantrymen would rock EIB's as opposed to CIB's as it was a tougher badge to get. From what was explained to me that if you have contact with the enemy you get the CIB but the EIB is a whole lot of work and they take pride in it.

 

 

Anyway, that's what I was told.

 

What RedLegGI said has alot of merit right now within the Infantry. Most infantrymen that have been in for more then 3 years have a CIB due to repeated OIF/OEF deployments made by most units. Soldiers with an EIB are very rare. When I was a commander only 1 of 5 company commanders had one (he was prior service) and only 5 PSGs in the BN had one (All 1SGs and CSM were EIB). The reason for this goes back to the orginal post. To have a reasonable chance to get 10-15% of participants to earn the EIB requires 1-2 months for company level trainup as well as another month for Brigade site setup as well as testing. Not too many units were able to take 3 months for EIB when they only had 12-18 months in between deployments.

 

With the deployment slow down, many units are starting to do EIB again but it is very differnt to the pre-2001 EIB explained above. While most of the tasks are the same they are graded very diffrently. Now the only prerequsite is qualifiying expert on the M4. The APFT and day/night LANDNAV tests are now part of the actual testing rather then prerequisites. Also, in testing instead of individual stations, Soldiers now go through 3 lanes each of which encompass multiple tasks. Soldiers can only miss one task per lane in order to pass the lane. It still does end with the roadmarch.

 

Finally of note, there is a trend developing from Senior NCO Boards that among Infantry NCOs being picked up for E-7, 8 or 9; the discriminator seems to be whether or not they have an EIB or Ranger Tab rather then a CIB. The probable reason being is that almost all senior Infantry NCOs have a CIB.

[Jumpin Jack]

Leigh, your very succinct description of the EIB testing brought back memories from many years back. When I was tested, the entire 82nd Airborne had to undergo testing. Out of approximately 13,000 troops, only 13 of us qualified for the EIB. While I have been shot at in combat, and do not wish to demeen the CIB in any way, I have been most proud of having earned this award.

 

During visits with WWII Vets, and there have been many, I have only encountered two enlisted men that have earned both the CIB and the EIB. I hold these men in the greatest regard as they survived in combat, and reflect the highest skill levels of their MOS.

 

Jack Angolia

[ABNRANGER1-75]

The EIB was very hard to earn...I had buddies in Ranger Battalion that wore EIB instead of CIB.

[Rakkasan187]

Gentlemen,

 

I appreciate the comments and feedback. It is interesting to hear the post Cold War post 9-11 era requirements. HATZ50228 brought up some very good information which I was not aware of. The Land Navigation and Fitness test being part of the actual EIB testing now and not a prerequisite and the fact that the candidate now goes thru lanes training with the skills set up in what I would imagine as a scenario based situation is very interesting and yet very relevant to what Infantrymen go thru today. Being at a test site with a station that cover's one specific task with no realism is what separates the Cold War peace time army (myself) from the Army at War. I think that today's candidate going through simulated combat lanes training is more realistic and puts just a little more pressure on the candidate.

 

Jack, thank you again for your insight. You hold a wealth of knowledge and I am sure that over the years, the men and women you have interviewed have had some incredible stories to share.

 

RedlegGI, Thank you as well for your information. Being at the Sergeants Major Academy, I very rarely see anyone wearing the EIB, but again at the senior level of NCO leadership, I think that some of the younger infantrymen and other Soldiers may look for the CIB on a uniform as a possible assurance that this person has been at least in a forward combat area, and possibly knows how to lead Soldiers. That is just a personal thought/observation.

 

Finally ABRANGER 1-75. Thank you for your insight as well. I have the utmost respect for Rangers and Special Forces and to hear that some of your buddies preferred to wear their EIBs even though they were awarded their CIB's validates that the EIB is still a critical part of the Infantryman's training regimen and it hones their skills that are necessary to survive in a combat environment.

 

SWAG,

 

Thank you to you as well for starting this post, I was actually thinking about asking the question to our members about the significance of the EIB during an era when our Country is at war, versus during Peacetime, and we have come up with some very interesting documentation as well as first hand knowledge and experience.

 

This is still a very interesting topic and post. I hope that we can keep this going. I look forward to hearing others experiences, stories etc.

 

Leigh

[NGCoastArtillery41]

Being a medic with an infantry unit, I am obviously not allowed to participate in EIB testing, although I fortunately enough to be allowed to train with my guys for the EIB. They also hold the same attitude that they would rather show off their EIB over their CIB because of it what it means. We had a platoon sergeant that had been in the Army since the late 70s and had his EIB and would wear a sterilized uniform (including no combat patch) besides his EIB even though he has had countless deployments, ABN, AA, Pathfinder, he chooses just to wear his EIB.

[NGCoastArtillery41]

Just curious because I have never seen one, but does anyone have a picture of a soldier in WWII wearing an EIB?

[Rakkasan187]

Being a medic with an infantry unit, I am obviously not allowed to participate in EIB testing, although I fortunately enough to be allowed to train with my guys for the EIB. They also hold the same attitude that they would rather show off their EIB over their CIB because of it what it means. We had a platoon sergeant that had been in the Army since the late 70s and had his EIB and would wear a sterilized uniform (including no combat patch) besides his EIB even though he has had countless deployments, ABN, AA, Pathfinder, he chooses just to wear his EIB.

 

You have my deepest respect being a medic. I was a paramedic/firefighter for 11 years after I retired from the Army.

 

Have you been able to test for the EFMB? Expert Field Medical Badge?? I had the opportunity to witness their lanes training. Very demanding and realistic events.

 

Leigh

 

[NGCoastArtillery41]

 

You have my deepest respect being a medic. I was a paramedic/firefighter for 11 years after I retired from the Army.

 

Have you been able to test for the EFMB? Expert Field Medical Badge?? I had the opportunity to witness their lanes training. Very demanding and realistic events.

 

Leigh

 

 

I've never had the opportunity to test for the EFMB. We did the EIB at the Battalion level as guardsmen and all of us medics asked (more like begged) for the opportunity to do EFMB because at the very least even if none of us earned it, it would've been great training, but it was to no avail.

 

Unfortunately our Bn HQ treats the medical platoon more as a bastard child than as an important part of the unit, so most of us make our allegiance to our line companies that give actually damn about us.

[Hatz50228]

RAKK,

Here is a link to the current EIB Standards from the Infantry School. It lists all the tasks, standards and trends of where guys no-go.

 

 

http://www.benning.army.mil/infantry/eib/

 

 

Wade

[Rakkasan187]

RAKK,

Here is a link to the current EIB Standards from the Infantry School. It lists all the tasks, standards and trends of where guys no-go.

 

 

http://www.benning.army.mil/infantry/eib/

 

 

Wade

 

Wade,

 

Thanks Brother...

 

Interesting reading...

 

Leigh

 

[BEAST]

Great discussion guys! I'm glad to see that they have modified the testing to reflect today's battlefield.

 

 

Leigh, thanks for posting the tasks. Earning the EIB for me was a challenge, but our brigade did a pretty good job of preparing us. I took my test in Aschaffenburg, West Germany and I think my favorite station was moving under direct fire. IIRC, we were given three rounds and the sniper was wearing MILES. I "killed" the sniper, much to the surprise of the evaluator and just had to finish maneuvering to the end. The station that I didn't like was the disassembly/assembly of the M16A2 immediately after the 12 mile road march. Too easy to forget a step or do it out of sequence.

 

When I transferred over to the Air National Guard, it was the one badge that I hated to quit wearing. The Air Force allows the CIB, but not the EIB. However, I know of at least one photo where I am in the background of a formation wearing blues and you can see my EIB.

[TRR]

I was in the same infantry battalion from 2005-2011...did EIB once and deployed twice. The guys that earned the EIB were very proud and respected for it. We had more guys with Ranger tabs than EIBs. Neither badge is easily earned.

[Rakkasan187]

Great discussion guys! I'm glad to see that they have modified the testing to reflect today's battlefield.

 

 

Leigh, thanks for posting the tasks. Earning the EIB for me was a challenge, but our brigade did a pretty good job of preparing us. I took my test in Aschaffenburg, West Germany and I think my favorite station was moving under direct fire. IIRC, we were given three rounds and the sniper was wearing MILES. I "killed" the sniper, much to the surprise of the evaluator and just had to finish maneuvering to the end. The station that I didn't like was the disassembly/assembly of the M16A2 immediately after the 12 mile road march. Too easy to forget a step or do it out of sequence.

 

When I transferred over to the Air National Guard, it was the one badge that I hated to quit wearing. The Air Force allows the CIB, but not the EIB. However, I know of at least one photo where I am in the background of a formation wearing blues and you can see my EIB.

Beast,

 

Thank you for your input. I recall many heated discussions from candidates that failed the last test after the road march, and they were not able to disassemble and assemble their weapons fast enough. The claims that palms were sweaty or swollen due to the road march was the most common complaint. Of course we had the Brigade Command Sergeant Major on our side when an officer would question why they failed them and they went off on us. They would look for help from any officer they could turn to, to include the battalion commander and in one case the Brigade Commander, but the first question out of their mouth's was "did you pass the test"? If the answer was no, the commander's said, "Well, better luck next time". No favoritism, no looking the other way, nothing.

 

I recall the functions check at the very end after reassembling the M16A2 rifle was what most people would get out of sequence or forget that after you place on 3 round burst, you had to pull the charging handle back 3 times to engage the trigger, and then pull the trigger. The look of despair and dissapointment on many of those candidates was heartbreaking.

 

Leigh

[GIKyle]

I tested EIB in 2009, which was the first time the 502nd had tested since 2002 due to deployments. It had been so long we had to borrow graders from other BDEs to fill out cadre. As Leigh mentioned above, I remember the heartbreak of blade runners No-Going one of the last few events The biggest disappointment from the event was the new soldiers, fresh off earning their CIBs, not putting forth a good effort into EIB testing so they would not have to finish it. This came back to bite many when BN promotion boards asked them why they hadn't 'gotten theirs'. Out of my little group that made it through, our rallying cry by the end was to make it through, if for no other reason than to not have to do it ever again!

 

Fast forward a couple duty stations later, when told I had to report for EIB training, I could proudly report that I 'got mine'.

 

Below is the EIB I was awarded. I was pumped that they were giving us sta-brite since I wouldn't have to buy one, however it became unserviceable soon after being pinned on.

 

Kyle

 

[Rakkasan187]

I tested EIB in 2009, which was the first time the 502nd had tested since 2002 due to deployments. It had been so long we had to borrow graders from other BDEs to fill out cadre. As Leigh mentioned above, I remember the heartbreak of blade runners No-Going one of the last few events The biggest disappointment from the event was the new soldiers, fresh off earning their CIBs, not putting forth a good effort into EIB testing so they would not have to finish it. This came back to bite many when BN promotion boards asked them why they hadn't 'gotten theirs'. Out of my little group that made it through, our rallying cry by the end was to make it through, if for no other reason than to not have to do it ever again!

 

Fast forward a couple duty stations later, when told I had to report for EIB training, I could proudly report that I 'got mine'.

 

Below is the EIB I was awarded. I was pumped that they were giving us sta-brite since I wouldn't have to buy one, however it became unserviceable soon after being pinned on.

 

Kyle

 

DSC09209.JPG

 

Kyle,

 

Congratulations on being a member of the club. Do you still bear the scars???

 

Leigh

[Steve B.]

I was active duty infantry from 1973 to 1979, and reserve component infantry from 1979 to 1993.

 

I never knew anyone that was entitled to both the EIB and CIB that preferred wearing the EIB.

 

I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I never encountered it that I know of.

[GIKyle]

Thanks, Leigh! No scars anymore but I do remember being in considerable pain for quite some time!

 

Kyle

[BEAST]

I was active duty infantry from 1973 to 1979, and reserve component infantry from 1979 to 1993.

 

I never knew anyone that was entitled to both the EIB and CIB that preferred wearing the EIB.

 

I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I never encountered it that I know of.

 

We had one instructor at the Infantry School who earned his CIB in Grenada, but preferred to wear his EIB, at least on his BDUs.