mortaydc60 Posted February 3, 2014 Share #1 Posted February 3, 2014 This may cause some contravesy since this patch is listed in the ASMIC patch catalogs as the 813th Tank BN and also in the DI catalogs. Regardless ,it is ridiculously rare with either ID. The reason I am suggesting it is a TD unit has to do with its construction. The patch has all the same qualities and construction as the WW2 twill and merrow edge 506th ABN and most likely made by same manufacturer. The US Army pamphlet Unit Citation and Campaign Participation Credit Register only lists an 813th TD but no 813th Tk Bn. Credited with 7 European and Africa campaigns. I have only seen or heard of 3 of these in collections. Scotty had never seen the patch and as you know there is not much he has not seen. This is on the level of the instructor patch in rarity. Here is the scan. Enjoy! Mort Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortaydc60 Posted February 3, 2014 Author Share #2 Posted February 3, 2014 Here is the scan of the back. Mort Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan H. Posted February 3, 2014 Share #3 Posted February 3, 2014 Mort, You and I discussed this patch at the last SOS and I believe we also talked about it at the ASMIC convention in Kansas City. I am in complete agreement that this is a WWII vintage patch and, as I stated earlier, it is undoubtedly made by the same company that made the 506th PIR pocket patch. The fact that the colors are predominantly orange and red, I would also say that it is more likely tank destroyer than armor, as most armor insignia tends to use green or cavalry yellow. I appreciate your showing this to the group. Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Baker Posted February 3, 2014 Share #4 Posted February 3, 2014 Fantastic! Thank you for sharing this Mort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearmon Posted February 3, 2014 Share #5 Posted February 3, 2014 Mort I believe the "left" printed on the back refers to the fact that this patch was left for me! I will PM my address! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patchguy Posted February 3, 2014 Share #6 Posted February 3, 2014 Mort, This link should silence anyone who disputes the above is from the 813th TD Bn. http://www.tankdestroyer.net/images/stories/ArticlePDFs/813th_DUI_History.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearmon Posted February 4, 2014 Share #7 Posted February 4, 2014 Is it unusual for the DUI to be approved so many years after the patch was supposed to be "worn". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortaydc60 Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share #8 Posted February 4, 2014 Mort, This link should silence anyone who disputes the above is from the 813th TD Bn. http://www.tankdestroyer.net/images/stories/ArticlePDFs/813th_DUI_History.pdf Thanks for backup citation on the history of the unit. You would be amazed at the people at the SOS that I met who had tables set up with just TD on their table and when I showed this patch to them they just blew me off mostly saying if anything it is" just a tank bn". Well this year has seen some big changes in "Most Wanted". First we have the 442Anti-tank disproved,next the 1st Ryukus Cmd, then on this forum the 2nd Corp in Red printed,should also mention the WASP. Now hopefully we can ADD this patch to the list of "MOST WANTED". See you at the SOS. Mort Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tredhed2 Posted February 4, 2014 Share #9 Posted February 4, 2014 Is it unusual for the DUI to be approved so many years after the patch was supposed to be "worn". This is an immediate, post-war German made DI for the 813th TD Bn. Just because a design was authorized does not mean it was actually worn, nor does the date of authorization necessarily mean it wasn't worn prior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tredhed2 Posted February 4, 2014 Share #10 Posted February 4, 2014 Thanks for backup citation on the history of the unit. You would be amazed at the people at the SOS that I met who had tables set up with just TD on their table and when I showed this patch to them they just blew me off mostly saying if anything it is" just a tank bn". Well this year has seen some big changes in "Most Wanted". First we have the 442Anti-tank disproved,next the 1st Ryukus Cmd, then on this forum the 2nd Corp in Red printed,should also mention the WASP. Now hopefully we can ADD this patch to the list of "MOST WANTED". See you at the SOS. Mort What Mort means about the W.A.S.P. is the one with the blue wasp on it and the yellow letters W.A.S.P. It was for a women's ambulance unit in HI, attached to the 7th AF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1SG_1st_Cav Posted February 4, 2014 Share #11 Posted February 4, 2014 An amazing piece of history. Thanks ~ Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearmon Posted February 4, 2014 Share #12 Posted February 4, 2014 Thanks for the explanation Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
militbuff Posted February 4, 2014 Share #13 Posted February 4, 2014 What Mort means about the W.A.S.P. is the one with the blue wasp on it and the yellow letters W.A.S.P. It was for a women's ambulance unit in HI, attached to the 7th AF. Dave, was that in one of the recent Trading Posts? If so, can you tell me which one? I don't recall seeing that in any of the Trading Posts but my reading isn't what it once was! Many thanks. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tredhed2 Posted February 4, 2014 Share #14 Posted February 4, 2014 Dave, was that in one of the recent Trading Posts? If so, can you tell me which one? I don't recall seeing that in any of the Trading Posts but my reading isn't what it once was! Many thanks. Dan O-D 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
militbuff Posted February 5, 2014 Share #15 Posted February 5, 2014 O-D 2012 Wow! I don't know how I missed that one. Fascinating article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vzemke Posted February 5, 2014 Share #16 Posted February 5, 2014 I agree this is a super rare patch, regardless if it's WWII 813th TD BN or 1950's US Army Reserve 813th TANK BN. Here is how I found mine. Seemingly random assortment of patches, but maybe not completely random. The 813th TANK Bn was part of the 79th Infantry Division (USAR) in the 1950's. When it was inactivated it was reflagged as a battalion of the 69th Armor. Both of those patches were also in this lot, along with many other 1950's thru early 70's patches that would have been likely for a career reservist. Purely coincidence? Maybe, but its enough to swing me back towards 813th Tank rather than Tank Destroyer. -Vance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan H. Posted February 5, 2014 Share #17 Posted February 5, 2014 No disrespect Vance, but using your logic, why would there be a Bomb Squadron patch in the mix? Sometimes patches just end up with other patches. Until we get Frisco Hare to figure out that this was a unit in the Philippines, and research the heck out of it, we'll all have to have our opinions. I did like Mort's link (and Tred's DI), which support my assertion that it is a TD patch. Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steverino Posted February 5, 2014 Share #18 Posted February 5, 2014 Vance, et al, Just weighing in on the age/correct designation of the 813th patch. You have some evidence in that Riker mount circumstantially suggesting that the patch dates from the '50's. However, I will go back to its Merrow edge (ME). I believe this is the rare case where the ME suggests a WWII date - thus making this the TD rather than the Tank designation. I cannot think of any ME patch from WWII to the late '60's when ME became the government standard. Can anyone else show us a 1950's ME patch? Just an observation. PatchJohnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortaydc60 Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share #19 Posted February 5, 2014 Hey Vance,when you saw this lot was it the 813th that you wanted and did you actually know it before hand that it was a rare piece? I would like to think that you were not just lucky. Regardless great find. See you at SOS.Mort Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garth Thompson Posted February 5, 2014 Share #20 Posted February 5, 2014 Vance, et al, Just weighing in on the age/correct designation of the 813th patch. You have some evidence in that Riker mount circumstantially suggesting that the patch dates from the '50's. However, I will go back to its Merrow edge (ME). I believe this is the rare case where the ME suggests a WWII date - thus making this the TD rather than the Tank designation. I cannot think of any ME patch from WWII to the late '60's when ME became the government standard. Can anyone else show us a 1950's ME patch? Just an observation. PatchJohnson Patch, The USPS Cadet Nurse series were all ME WWII vintage patches. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted February 5, 2014 Share #21 Posted February 5, 2014 Does anyone know where this patch came from ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vzemke Posted February 6, 2014 Share #22 Posted February 6, 2014 Great discussion. To be honest, I keep mine in a riker with other rare WWII tank/armor/TD patches. I'm just not 100% convinced it's WWII, it's circumstantial evidence either way until someone finds a photo or one in the hands of a vet/vets family. We do know for a fact that the designation and a version of the design was used by an Army Reserve unit in the 1950s. Trust me, I own this patch and want it to be WWII as much as anyone else, but as far as I'm concerned the jury is still out. -Vance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintageproductions Posted February 6, 2014 Share #23 Posted February 6, 2014 This was just sent to me by a member of the forum that doesn't post anymore but asked me to post it here. Hi, Bob.I've been following the "RARE" 813th TD Bn saga.* There were no TD bns before WWII. There was no 813th TD Bn BEFORE WWII.* After being created from a handful of disparate units in early WWII, the 813th TD served through WWII, as an RA (on active duty) TD bn.* At the end of WWII, the 813th was inactivated, and until 1952 was in suspended animation - no creditable service, ANYWHERE.* From 1952 - 1959, the 813th was assigned to the ORC and USAR - the ready reserve component of the Army Reserve.Enter, that PESKY minuteman crest, above the coat of arms of the 813th TD. Hence, there is NO WAY that minuteman crest can be there, until the 813th served as the 813th Tk Bn in the ORC/USAR from '52 - '59. NO ONE knew in WWII that the 813th would serve in the active Reserve 7 years AFTER WWII.Thus….. the reason the patch has a merrow edge; is NOT because it is a RARE example of a merrow patch made in WWII. Rather, it is because it was made in the years of "pocket patch mania" - the Nineteen Fifties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vzemke Posted February 6, 2014 Share #24 Posted February 6, 2014 Great point. The minuteman crest wouldn't have really been appropriate for an active duty unit as it implies reserve or national guard. 1950's: plus one. -Vance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vzemke Posted February 6, 2014 Share #25 Posted February 6, 2014 I also feel its appropriate to point out that this patch is still exceedingly and legitimately rare regardless of being WWII or 1950s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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