What type of Oxygen mask?

[AZPhil]

Hello All,

I want to put together a display to Honor my Uncle Joe. He was in the 8th AAF 384th BG and was a tailgunner on a B17 from October 43 till April 44. What would be the correct type of Oxygen mask would he have used?

Thanks

Semper Fi

Phil

[manayunkman]

A-11 is what you most commonly see.

 

Sure would like to see your progress putting your tribute together.

[Sabrejet]

From a collector's point of view "availability" is a major consideration. There was no one particular O2 mask which prevailed during your grandfather's period of service as the various types overlapped as they became available. The most commonly encountered type today is the A-14 which was standardized in the summer of '43 and which became the principal mask for the remainder of the war. However the A-10 and also A-8B would also have been contenders. These types are much harder to find...in any condition. Good examples are scarce and expensive. Below are examples of an A-10 and A-14.

 

[manayunkman]

I knew what I really wanted to say was A-14.

 

I haven't been in the hobby long and I make mistakes.

[Ronnie]

Manny you were thinking about the A11 helmet I bet.

Ronnie

[Sabrejet]

I knew what I really wanted to say was A-14.

 

I haven't been in the hobby long and I make mistakes.

 

No worries Manay...we were all rookies once!

[Sabrejet]

BTW....this might seem an obvious thing to say, but when you put your display together, make sure your chosen flying helmet and O2 mask are compatible. By that I mean that, for example, if you opted for an A-14 mask the flying helmet would require the necessary snaps and retaining hook (often missing) Many flying helmets had the snaps to accommodate the new generation O2 masks added later at unit level. Therefore, it's possible to find flying helmets which have not had these features added.

[AZPhil]

Thank You Gent's for your reply to my question. I was bidding on a A10A mask but it went for a lot more than what I had bid.

I also will have to get a hold of the left waist gunner on my uncle's B17 and find out exactly what type(leather or canvas) of Flight helmet he and my uncle were wearing when they got shot down. I will also ask if the O2 mask had a built in mic or if he was using a throat mic. This should narrow down my options and what type's I need to look for.

Once again Thank You for the info and the picture!!!

Semper Fi

Phil

[dmar836]

Good stuff to know. Keep us informed.

Dave

[AZPhil]

Well I spoke with Phil (left waist gunner) today and ask him about what type of flight helmet that he and my Uncle were wearing the day they were shot down. He told me "It was one of the flight helmets made of material not the leather one's and it had big black earpads that held the receivers" I also asked if he remebered what type of oxygen mask he wore. He said that in training they used the type that strapped to there heads but when they got to England they were given the type that snapped to the helmet. He also said that he wore a throat mic.

Phil also did list how he dressed that day. He told me he started with his skivvies on and put on the 2 piece silk pants and shirt, then he put on his Class A wool uniform, then put on the heater suite and over that he wore the fatigue coveralls. When I asked about the flak helmet he said they didn't wear them. We pissed in them and when the pee froze we threw it out the window!!! I laughed but Phil said No really, that is what we did!!!

I love talking with Phil!!!!!

 

So I guess I can go from there as far as putting something together to Honor these Gent's.

If anybody has any suggestion I am all ear's!!

Semper Fi

Phil

[usaaf93]

Hello

 

If it's not a leather a leather helmet but has black ear-pads I would say it's an AN-H-15 helmet. For the mask it will be more difficult. It seems from what you are saying that they used A8B in the states. They could have get A10 or A 14 when they crashed.

For the mic, it must be a T30.

 

Hope it helps

[mr_lits]

'43-'44 would have either been the A10 O2 mask or the A14. Heated suit would most likely have been the F2 suit if it was worn over his Class A. Followed by an A4 flight suit most likely.

[littlebuddy]

Many options here , but no way am I peeing in my flak helmet !!!

[littlebuddy]

BTW ! you failed to ask what goggles he wore ???

[littlebuddy]

Hello

 

If it's not a leather a leather helmet but has black ear-pads I would say it's an AN-H-15 helmet. For the mask it will be more difficult. It seems from what you are saying that they used A8B in the states. They could have get A10 or A 14 when they crashed.

For the mic, it must be a T30.

 

Hope it helps

 

Could it have been an A10 helmet ???

[AZPhil]

BTW ! you failed to ask what goggles he wore ???

NOPE!!!!

I asked about those and he said he wore the black rubber one!!!!!

 

Semper Fi

Phil

[AZPhil]

All this info is fantastic!!

Thanks for the input. It is greatly appreciated.

 

SF

Phil

[AZPhil]

I pulled out my notes of my conversation with Phil and one other thing Phil mentioned was that they were issued 45 cal pistols. I asked if he wore it while flying and he said No. It was in my duffle bag. I asked if he was talking about his duffle bag back at the barracks and he told me No, the duffle bag he carried his flight helmet, parachute and flak helmet for that flight.

 

Just a couple more tidbits

 

SF

Phil

[Sabrejet]

I pulled out my notes of my conversation with Phil and one other thing Phil mentioned was that they were issued 45 cal pistols. I asked if he wore it while flying and he said No. It was in my duffle bag. I asked if he was talking about his duffle bag back at the barracks and he told me No, the duffle bag he carried his flight helmet, parachute and flak helmet for that flight.

 

Just a couple more tidbits

 

SF

Phil

 

That would probably be his aviators' kit bag. Here's one I have.

 

[littlebuddy]

NOPE!!!!

I asked about those and he said he wore the black rubber one!!!!!

 

Semper Fi

Phil

B8's then !!

[Beachmaster]

Hi Phil,

 

Sounds like you've got most things covered, including the flak helmet, ahem Goggles sound like B8's, boots would've more than likely been A6's, it would help if you have a clear crew shot or you could post the details of his ship he mainly flew on at that time. That info on the 45.s is interesting as it was mainly only the bombardiers that flew with them and that was usually to knock out the norden sights in the event of crash landing etc, many crewmen figured if they came up against ground troops that they wouldn't be able to put up much of a fight with a pistol and they'd have a greater chance of being shot than if they surrendered.

 

We'd also be able to fully clarify what oxygen mask he would've worn if we know the ships he flew in. This would help to show whether he was flying in an earlier version B17 with the A8 constant flow system or later versions with the A10/14 configurations.

 

Grafton is a great place to visit even though the remains are now crumbling very quickly there is still a few things to see there.

 

Cheers Dave

[AZPhil]

Thanks Dave,

I hope someday to visit Grafton Underwood.

Here is the info from the 384th BG website about the B17 Mrs Geezil.

This is the B17 they flew their last 10 missions in and also the one they were shot down in on April 13th 1944

Let me know what you think about the O2 mask.

 

http://384thbombgroup.com/_content/_pages/One384thAircraft.php?AircraftKey=42-38112

 

 

Semper Fi

Phil

[AZPhil]

I have the original pic of this crew when they flew a mission in the DAMNED YANKEE II. It is several meg. and I can't down load it to the site due to size limit.This is a colorized picture a friend of mine did. The only problem is they are not wearing any flight gear except their suites. My Uncle Joe is second from the right on the bottom row and the guy to the left of him is Phillip Chaperon the Gent I spoke to about what they wore while flying and also the man that gave me this picture.

 

Semper Fi

Phil

[Sabrejet]

In the first pic I looked at (below) the single crewman is wearing an RAF Type "C" flying helmet...commonly used by USAAF fighter pilots actually...and what appear to be variable density gunner's goggles. The O2 mask is a little indistinct, but quite likely an A-14. Note also the zippered First Aid pack. Now exceedingly rare..and expensive!

 

[Beachmaster]

Hi Phil,

 

thats helps a lot, I got my books out last night and as soon as I saw the date I realised it was Schweinfurt where your Unlce was shot down, how could I forget that one ! Some great pics on the website, love the one Sabrejet posted up above of Gen. Robert Travis who flew on the ship on mission 68 as lead aircraft for the group, interesting to see the variable density goggles being worn, I have seen this before but it was done very rarely. Lovely early A4 suit there and it looks like Majors tabs on his shoulder, mask is either an A14 as Sabrejet has pointed out or A10/A10A configuration. Nice early QAC harness which appears to be 'un-grouped' (i.e. not marked either red/yellow or Group 1 / Group 2 respectively).

 

In regards to that lovely colourised picture of your Uncles crew, I'm sure you can see he's wearing an A2 jacket, B4 life preserver and an A-3 mechanics cap and it looks like an A4 flying suit and possibly the tops of a pair of A6 boots but I can't say for certain about the last two items due to the clarity of the shot.

 

'Damend Yankee' was a B17F variant as you probably know, I was trying to see from my records when the 384th would've gone over from the A8 masks to the A10 variants, it appears they may have still been using them in late 43' but the G models would've been on the A10/A14 system by the time he was shot down so you can at least go with some certainty on that route if its the end of his missions you're going to replicate.

 

Hope this helps a little and thanks for sharing the great picture of him and his crew.

 

For info the lovely memorial at Grafton states on the back of it 'The first and last 8th AAF bombs were dropped from this base', guess that says it all.

 

Cheers Dave