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#101 468abnarm

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 09:23 PM

Does anyone know if there was a G Co 18th Armored Infantry Regt. that served in Korea?



#102 firefighter

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 03:25 AM

Mary thank you for going the forum and providing information that you have on Mr. (CAPT) Ahrens.As I stated before when I started this thread, I was not out to get anybody but just thought the uniform looked odd and didn't seem to go with the article.Looking forward to helping sort this out.



#103 Shade Ruff

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 04:03 AM

Shade Ruff - Interesting reading re: Charlotte Sun Herald (now called the Charlotte Sun). I missed that one - did you notice a by-line on that story?
 
Regards to all -
 
Mary A
Site Admin for DonMooresWarTales.com
 
There are some

 
Mary A,
 
  While no by-line was included in the article version I posted above, I was able to recover the by-line from another version of the exact same article.  I hope the below information is of some use.

 

Shade Ruff


By RICHARD PEACOCK

Staff Writer

You can e-mail Richard Peacock at [email protected]



#104 Shade Ruff

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 04:22 AM

Does anyone know if there was a G Co 18th Armored Infantry Regt. that served in Korea?

 
468abnarm,
 
  While there was an 18th Armored Infantry Battalion (16th Armored Division) that served occupation duty in Germany at the end of World War II, there was never a U.S. Army unit known as the 18th Armored Infantry Regiment.
 
  As for armored infantry organizations at large, "the U.S. Army had been experimenting with mechanised infantry throughout 1941, early versions bearing a close resemblance to the standard Infantry Battalion. In March 1942 the Armored Infantry underwent a significant reorganisation, which gave the unit a very distinctive structure.  Originally, the Armored Infantry Battalion was part of a Regimental organisation, which included Headquarters and Service Companies.  The Battalion was completely mechanised, carrying its personnel in a mixture of wheeled vehicles and lightly armoured halftracks.  It also enjoyed a high concentration of automatic firepower, with both the M2 and M3 halftracks carrying a collection of machine guns.  It was in this format that the US Armored Infantry first saw active service against the Wehrmacht in the North African campaign.  While it proved sound, it would undergo a number of important modifications in late 1943 to prepare it for combat in Europe.

In late 1943, U.S. Armored Divisions underwent a major reorganization.  Among the various changes was the abolition of the Armored Infantry Regiment, leaving each Division with three Armored Infantry Battalions."
 
Shade Ruff



#105 Baron3-6

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 05:49 AM

Guys-

 

Every VFW post had (Has) a guy like this. Well intentioned, patriotic, and their stories are 99% true. For whatever reason though they don't care about the regulations because they're not in anymore and no one is inspecting them. Did I mention he's over 80 years old?  Also, it doesn't help when their buddy Floyd or whoever tells them "there's a new ribbon for Army volunteers I read about - didn't you volunteer or were you drafted?" ...and he goes out and gets it....along with Korea Defense, and the Cold War Medal, and the overseas ribbon....because he defended Korea, served in the Cold War, and was overseas in the army (not saying it's correct, just showing the logic here). These guys don't use computers and they don't have a copy of awards or uniform regulations lying around (and even if they did - that'd be potentially holding vintage uniforms to modern standards, right? *sacrilege*)

 

I think squaring him away with a corrected set of ribbons and badges he can be proud of will set the record straight and help out a vet who did have an extremely diverse career. This would be an S1/Yeoman's nightmare trying to figure this one out. Glad we have so much tallent here...



#106 BROBS

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 07:09 AM

I certainly agree.. I think this thread has taken a much better turn.

It seems he is just very confused about what he is actually allowed/able to wear.

 

I don't think he is "posing" as someone who did things that he really didn't.. just doesn't know the correct way to represent his service by awards and ribbons.

 

I hope we can figure this out and get him the correct set that he can be proud of!

I would gladly donate to the cause.

 

--Brian



#107 cutiger83

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 07:27 AM

I find it rather interesting that the first two pages of this thread are filled with condemning remarks such as:

 

“What a joke, only thing right about that uniform is the buttons & they may be questionable.”

 “Soup sandwich!”

“This is a man of many parts.........and he put them together all at once”

“So many things wrong in his story you wouldn't even know where to begin. The really sad part is honest people who want to honor the military are taken in by the likes of these types.”

 “Do they actually believe their own lie? Makes absolutely no sense..........what a d----- bag! “

 

Once a few people start to ask questions, the tone in the thread changes a little but there are still some doubters: “As much as I agree with you Bob, I stand by my opinion which is he is full of ****. “

 

On page 2, the author (or so we thought it was the author) of the original article added a response. On page 4, one response even starts to question the knowledge of the author of the article because of a few typos and misspelled words. If we judge knowledge based on a typo, grammatical error, or misspelled words, then we judge about 50% of the members on the forum. :) 

 

Once we hit page 4, the title is changed from “hero or fraud” to “what do you think”.  The user, Shade Ruff, did some wonderful leg work and explanations. After this, the tone in the thread has completely changed from condemning the man and calling him names such as “d---bag” to actually trying to get to the bottom of it. What caused this about face? Was it the change in the title? Was it actually having his military record?

 

Now that we actually have some of the facts, I still stand by my first post in this thread where I stated “There is a fine line between saying ‘fraud or stolen valor’ and facing ‘defamation of character’ charges."  I hope many of you who were condemning this man’s character in the first few pages of this thread are now eating some humble pie.  

 

I am not trying to point fingers at any one forum member. I am just trying to say that we should not be so quick at jumping to conclusions.

 

...Kat


Edited by cutiger83, 27 January 2014 - 07:28 AM.


#108 Dave

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 07:39 AM

I think we have a pretty good idea of his career through 1952, but I'm not doing any hero-veneration just yet...

The fact remains that he is wearing a bunch of awards he didn't earn. The campaign medals can be somewhat explained. However, it's hard for me to figure out how a Meritorious Service Medal and FOUR awards of the Navy Commendation Medal just "showed up" on his rack. Those are what bridges this from an old vet mistakenly wearing some campaign medals to a case of stolen valor. Lets not overlook that...

Dave

#109 Baron3-6

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 07:44 AM

Dave - I'm not a Navy man, but wasn't the Navy Commendation medal originally presented for letters of commendation/merit, etc? It could be somewhere along the lines he was told wrong about those letters being represented by a ribbon. I'd imagine if he supported the navy directly (USMS oilers, supply ships, etc) he probably got a few letters of commendation over the years. Just a thought.



#110 cutiger83

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 08:08 AM

I think we have a pretty good idea of his career through 1952, but I'm not doing any hero-veneration just yet...

However, it's hard for me to figure out how a Meritorious Service Medal and FOUR awards of the Navy Commendation Medal just "showed up" on his rack.

 

Given what we now know, do you honestly think it is still fair what people were saying in the first few pages of this thread? Whether or not he is correct or a confused veteran, I still do not believe it was right to call someone who obviously served our country the names he was being called in the first few pages.

 

I found this on Wikipedia about the Merchant Marines

 

"During times of war, the Merchant Marine is classified as part of the uniformed services and members obtain veteran status."

 

Since the Merchant Marines is an auxiliary of the Navy, could this explain some of the Navy commendation medals?


Edited by cutiger83, 27 January 2014 - 08:08 AM.


#111 Jack's Son

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 08:16 AM

Kat, I believe that many of us, (myself included) have somewhat changed our tune from the opening salvoes of the thread. While I still think he is a man of many parts, I still believe that he has his parts mixed-up. I have not called him a "faker"......just a "FLAKER". :)

#112 Dave

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 08:20 AM

 

Given what we now know, do you honestly think it is still fair what people were saying in the first few pages of this thread? Whether or not he is correct or a confused veteran, I still do not believe it was right to call someone who obviously served our country the names he was being called in the first few pages.

 

I found this on Wikipedia about the Merchant Marines

 

"During times of war, the Merchant Marine is classified as part of the uniformed services and members obtain veteran status."

 

Since the Merchant Marines is an auxiliary of the Navy, could this explain some of the Navy commendation medals?

 

Wikipedia, is unfortunately very general and in this case, incorrect. Only service prior to August 15, 1945 counts toward veteran status. While it is possible that a Merchant Mariner during WW2 could have received a medal from the Navy (I'm sure there are cases out there), according to the link from the Merchant Marine I posted toward the beginning of this thread, they are not eligible for awards from the Navy after that.

 

The thought of him mistaking some congratulatory letter or thank you note as a commendation...it's stretching it...but I guess anything is possible. Regardless, they are still unearned medals. And I still can't think of a scenario where he could have mistaken something received as being eligible for the Meritorious Service Medal.

 

That's why I've asked from the beginning for proof of these five awards. We received bona-fide proof of his awards prior to 1952...so there should be proof of the later ones as well. If there isn't proof...then he should stop wearing them as they weren't earned nor awarded...and thus are "stolen valor".

 

And as I've said before...I'd happily buy him a rack of ribbons to reflect what he actually earned...provided that the actual documentation is there.

 

Dave



#113 Dave

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 08:22 AM

 


 

Since the Merchant Marines is an auxiliary of the Navy, could this explain some of the Navy commendation medals?

 

Oh, and PS...don't tell any Merchant Mariners they are an "auxiliary of the Navy". That might not bode well.... :D
 



#114 cutiger83

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 08:39 AM

Dave and Robin,

 

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on the name-calling.  As 12A54 said “None of the ribbons are for valor. He's not claiming to be a hero, just someone who served long and hard - and it seems he did.” Without knowing all of the facts, I will never see how it is alright to call someone who served our country names such as a "d--- bag" or "full of ####".

 

...Kat



#115 Jack's Son

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 08:51 AM

Dave and Robin,
 I guess we will have to agree to disagree..............
 ...Kat


AIN'T :love: GRAND!!

#116 12A54

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 08:51 AM

Not sure that inadvertently, mistakenly, incorrectly, or otherwise wearing common and low precedence medals earns the label of stolen "valor".



#117 Wharfmaster

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 09:39 AM

Simply joining the Service or Merchant Marine does not automatically make a person a saint. Americans most admire humble heroes, civil and military.

 

Loading a uniform until you get a list to port looks tacky, entitled to the bling or not. 

 

 

 

W



#118 cutiger83

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 09:44 AM

Simply joining the Service or Merchant Marine does not automatically make a person a saint. Americans most admire humble heroes, civil and military.

 

 

Wharfmaster,

 

I totally agree with you. What I have been trying to say is that I don't think any name calling and finger pointing should be done until all of the facts are present.

 

...Kat



#119 Shade Ruff

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 11:49 AM

His DD Form 214 for Korean War service confirms this.  Note the block that appears to be titled "Most Significant Unit Assignment."  In this block it appears to read, "CO G 18TH AIR APO 51."
 
  I would assume 18TH AIR is a typographical error for what should read "187TH AIR" - 187th Airborne Infantry Regiment or 187th Airborne Regimental Combat Team as it was also known.
 
Shade Ruff

 
  I can confirm APO 51 (Army Post Office 51) is associated with the 187th Airborne Infantry Regiment during the Korean Conflict.  Below are two references I've come across to establish this connection (I have masked the individuals' names for privacy reasons):

"My Father is Xxxxx X. Xxxxxx. Ring any bells? His duty assignment was CO.K, 187th AIR , APO 51."

"My father's name was Yyyyyy Y. Yyyyyy. He went by "Yyy". He was a Corporal in Company M. 187th Air APO 51."

 

  When the separate Ranger infantry companies serving in Korea were inactivated over the course of 1951, their assigned personnel were absorbed under the 187th Airborne Infantry Regiment/187th Airborne Regimental Combat Team.

 

Shade Ruff
 



#120 Wharfmaster

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 12:14 PM

 

 

Wharfmaster,

 

I totally agree with you. What I have been trying to say is that I don't think any name calling and finger pointing should be done until all of the facts are present.

 

...Kat

 

Agree.

 

 

W
 



#121 Shade Ruff

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 03:47 PM

  Based on the evidence presented to date, I believe an accurate representation of Captain Arens' authorized awards and badges is as depicted below.

 

  Although we may assume Arens served in a Ranger infantry company in Korea (3rd Ranger Infantry Company (Airborne)), there is no evidence to confirm he is a graduate of a formal U.S. Army Infantry School Ranger training course.  That said, he would not be authorized to wear the Ranger tab.

 

Shade Ruff

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  • Arens Display.jpg


#122 12A54

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 03:58 PM

Which is a fascinating group and one that would be attractive to any of us because of its intriguing mix and real service/experience. Thanks for this.

#123 uplandmod

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 04:09 PM

That's a rack to be proud of!

 

LF



#124 468abnarm

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 04:15 PM

Has anyone checked with the Naval History and Heritage Command to verify if he did in fact "skipper" the Antares?


Edited by 468abnarm, 27 January 2014 - 04:16 PM.


#125 Shade Ruff

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 05:38 PM

  Based on the evidence presented to date, I believe an accurate representation of Captain Arens' authorized awards and badges is as depicted below.

 

  Although we may assume Arens served in a Ranger infantry company in Korea (3rd Ranger Infantry Company (Airborne)), there is no evidence to confirm he is a graduate of a formal U.S. Army Infantry School Ranger training course.  That said, he would not be authorized to wear the Ranger tab.

 

Shade Ruff

 

  I neglected to include the Republic of Korea Presidential Unit Citation in my earlier post.  Captain Arens is also entitled to this award.

 

Shade Ruff

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  • Arens Display.jpg



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