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UNUSUAL GLIDER PILOT WINGS-Please weigh in!


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#1 BEAST

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 01:41 PM

I bought these last week and was able to take some detailed photos today.  I have looked through catalogs like S&S, imperial imports, etc., trying to find fakes made like these.  All of the fakes that I have seen tend to be in the standard pattern. The only originals that are even close to these have been theater made Engineer wings with an "E" applied to an observer's wing. 

 

Basically I'm stumped.  They do have weight to them weighing in at 17.01grams

 

Here are the photos from the auction:

 

GLIDER OBVERSE WEB.jpg

 

GLIDER REVERSE web.jpg



#2 BEAST

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 01:43 PM

Here are a few detail shots.

 

PC220500.JPG

 

PC220501.JPG

 

PC220499.JPG



#3 BEAST

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 01:46 PM

The "G"

 

PC220491.JPG

 

PC220493.JPG



#4 BEAST

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 01:48 PM

The wings

 

PC220495.JPG



#5 BEAST

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 01:49 PM

The wings (reverse)

 

 

 

PC220497.JPG


Edited by BEAST, 22 December 2013 - 01:51 PM.


#6 BEAST

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 01:52 PM

There was a pair of liaison pilots wings sold by the same dealer that were the same pattern.  If a member bought those, I hope you will post them!



#7 John Cooper

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 10:00 PM

These are tough to call... I want then to be right but something seems off to me. The even patina of this wing and the other you did not win strikes me as odd. That and the fact the seller happen to have two letter wings so perfectly matched.

It's just my gut... and honestly I have not had the time to dig in to this. I hope some of the the folks here will be able to weigh in on this for you.

Cheers

#8 BEAST

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 04:11 AM

These are tough to call... I want then to be right but something seems off to me. The even patina of this wing and the other you did not win strikes me as odd. That and the fact the seller happen to have two letter wings so perfectly matched.

It's just my gut... and honestly I have not had the time to dig in to this. I hope some of the the folks here will be able to weigh in on this for you.

Cheers

 

John,

 

Thank you for your input! I still not sure what to think about these.  As I mentioned in my other post, the seller sells mostly estate sale/flea market type of items.  This is why I thought that maybe these came from one of the older companies that sold reproductions, but I haven't found a similar example in any of my old catalogs. 

 

I'm hoping the person who purchased the Liaison wings will post them here in order for us to compare them.  In the meantime, here is another close-up of the wing.

 

PC220494.JPG

 

 



#9 Patchcollector

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 05:08 AM

I'm no expert by any means,but my thought is if no one has seen this pattern in the last 70 years or so,they are either exceedingly rare,or recently made.



#10 John Cooper

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 07:43 AM

Beast,

Contact the seller and see if he/she will pass you contact info to the other buyer. I have had some success with this in the past.

Can you check how are the fittings attached under magnification.

Cheers

#11 BEAST

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 09:21 AM

Beast,

Contact the seller and see if he/she will pass you contact info to the other buyer. I have had some success with this in the past.

Can you check how are the fittings attached under magnification.

Cheers

 

Good idea John.  I'll check with the seller and see if she can put me into contact with the other buyer. 

 

I'm not sure what I am looking for with the fittings.  They seem to be neatly attached, soldered I believe.  Here are a couple of close-ups.  If I should be looking for something else, let me know.

 

CLASP.jpg

 

hinge.JPG
 



#12 BEAST

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 09:30 AM

I'm no expert by any means,but my thought is if no one has seen this pattern in the last 70 years or so,they are either exceedingly rare,or recently made.

 

Patchcollector,  I would think that also.  A photo of these being worn would be very handy right now.  I've googled various terms trying to find a site selling these and haven't found it yet.

 



#13 BROBS

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 09:47 AM

would all that grinding along the edge be where they ground off all the flashing from a cast?

 

-Brian



#14 John Cooper

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 09:56 AM

BROBS those are marks typical of a die struck wing. As for this being a cast wing I do not see the typical signs of that.

I hope some other wingnuts will chime in.

Cheers

#15 pfrost

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 10:45 AM

I'm not feeling the love with these wings. 



#16 BROBS

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 12:00 PM

BROBS those are marks typical of a die struck wing. As for this being a cast wing I do not see the typical signs of that.

I hope some other wingnuts will chime in.

Cheers

John,

I know I have seen die struck with these grinding marks... but never quite so thick?

It almost looks like where some "flashing" went out over a casting mold.

 

Perhaps they are good?  I am not experienced with wings of this type. (let's be honest... with any wing :) )

 

-Brian



#17 John Cooper

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 12:55 PM

Brian,

I think the photo has something to do with how think they appear. As for being die struck that does not guarantee period wings just the process by which they have been produced.

I think beast alluded to the post war produced wings by S&S which produced lots of wings for there catalog.

Cheers

#18 John Cooper

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 01:32 PM

Beast I was looking at one of the photos and noticed what appears to be brass showing through in the shoulder area on the right side. Is this what it appears to you under close inspection?

Additionally if possible can you post a macro shot in nature light of the should area?

Cheers
John

#19 BEAST

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 02:58 PM

Beast I was looking at one of the photos and noticed what appears to be brass showing through in the shoulder area on the right side. Is this what it appears to you under close inspection?

Additionally if possible can you post a macro shot in nature light of the should area?

Cheers
John


John,

I looked at the shoulder area using a magnifying glass and don't see brass. But I will look at them under natural light and get a few more photos. I also measured their length and wing tip to wing tip they are just over 3" so none of the shrinkage associated with a casting.

#20 John Cooper

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 05:40 PM

Beast,

 

Here is a photo to consider - The top wing as you will see is a solid back version marked sterling. The second wing is like yours except the patina, the small pools of solder the fitting sit in and the finer finishing. Finally there is a test strike of the pattern.

 

I consider these to be good wings but I am open to any information to any new information.

 

Cheers

 

wing_pattern1.jpg



#21 John Cooper

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 05:42 PM

Here is the reverse photo.

 

wing_pattern2.jpg



#22 Patchcollector

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 07:12 PM

John,I think that you are on to something.That center wing looks very similar to Beasts.Perhaps the maker was experimenting with different designations,and produced a few of the Glider ones.It may even be a prototype.



#23 BEAST

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 08:26 PM

John,I think that you are on to something.That center wing looks very similar to Beasts.Perhaps the maker was experimenting with different designations,and produced a few of the Glider ones.It may even be a prototype.


IF REAL, here's my theory on why these were made. Both gliders and observation aircraft could be piloted by enlistedmen. Both the liaison and glider pilot's wings that I have posted mimic the aircrew wing as opposed to the traditional pilot's wing. Maybe initial guidance on the pattern of the wings was not clear to all of the manufactures.
Once again, just a SWAG and not all that scientific.

#24 John Cooper

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 10:26 PM

Maybe some other folks can post wings built from the same pattern for other wings i.e. AG...

I glad I can help a little and maybe spark some additional thought on this topic.

Cheers

P.S. Take a look Bob's site start with the AG wings and see if ya see something in the ballpark.

Edited by John Cooper, 23 December 2013 - 10:30 PM.


#25 BEAST

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 12:17 PM

Beast I was looking at one of the photos and noticed what appears to be brass showing through in the shoulder area on the right side. Is this what it appears to you under close inspection?

Additionally if possible can you post a macro shot in nature light of the should area?

Cheers
John

 

John,

 

Sorry it has taken so long to respond to your request.  Here are two photos taken of the shoulder area that shows the most wear.  Both taken in natural light. Looking at them in hand, I don't see the brass.

 

shoulder 2 web.jpeg shoulder web.jpg




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