Guest skinner Posted July 29, 2008 Share #26 Posted July 29, 2008 The over all shape is the same, The baldes on each of the bayonets are around 16" long. Where your "knife" says SA, the one my son has says RIA. After looking at your knife and at the one my sone has I think someone may have redone the handels at one point in time. I will get pictures up in the morning. Thanks Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_B Posted August 1, 2008 Author Share #27 Posted August 1, 2008 I have a few questions for all of you. My two boys have each inherited a bayonet from their great grandfather; he was a medic in WW1. One is a Remington Model, stamped 1917; the grips have what looks like two factory grooves that go completely around the handle. It is missing its scabbard. The other is marked RIA 1918 has serial numbers in the 3 hundred thousand range. With a scabbard. The RIA one is missing the push button to release the scabbard and the bayonet from the rifle. My questions are as follows. How hard would it be to find a scabbard for the Remington bayonet. What rifles were used for these two Bayonets. I can post some pictures on here tomorrow. If anyone could even point me out in the right direction I will start to research these things on my own. The RIA bayonet has some rust from being in its scabbard for all these years is there a way to clean that off that will not damage the finish? Neither one has ever been sharpened both have there original finish. The scabbard for the RIA one looks like it is a fiberglass type compost. Olive drab green, has the exploding ordinance with US stamped on the bomb. Is that the correct scabbord for the RIA bayonet? Again any information will be helpful and I will try to post pictures tomorrow.Thank you all very much for your insight. Mike Mike- any luck with the pics? The Remington...I don't know...I'm wondering if it was used on a trench gun? That's a guess The RIA was made by Rock Island Arsenal. For that date, it is a correct manufacturer for a Model of 1905 bayonet, more commonly called the "M1905". To my knowledge only Springfield (SA) and Rock Island Arsenal (RIA) would be correct manufacturers for that bayonet From your description, it seems to be identical to the Model of 1905s pictured here. Too bad about the release catch...perhaps a small investment in a broken bayonet could be made, to use as parts, or a repro purchased for the needed parts...I'm not sure how to proceed on that. I know of no one who has stocks of original parts for the bayonets, but you may get lucky They were originally a touch over 16" long. many were re-finished by the US Gov't to 10" for WWII. They can display a "bowie" or "spear" point in that case. Seems no clear cut guide to those but I can be mistaken The Model of 1905 bayonet fits the M1903 Springfield rifle and the M1 "Garand" rifle. The scabbard should be WWII correct. Actually I believe it to only appear like fiberglass, but it is actually a fiberboard-type composite made by injecting essentially a type of heavy paper with plastic resin. The US made good use of pressed paper composites in WWII, for such things as aircraft drop tanks, which are all assumed to be aluminum but in widely used examples were actually pressed paper. Anyway back to the scabbard, it should appear to have a 'grain' to it. Modern reproductions are fiberglass, and will typically show their nature also on the scabbard "throat", where the metal part is. On the area that surrounds the belt attaching point (the bent wire rod), the steel often shows heavy fatigue and rips or tears where it was crimped around the hanger, on repros. An original would typically not show this type of poor metal and manufacture The metal 'fingers' on the throat would engage the scabbard release catch, similarly to the way the rifle would 'capture' the bayonet when mounted. You will note that the RIA bayonet has slots in the cross piece to allow those fingers to pass through the hilt. If the RIA had the catch, you could capture the bayonet securely with the handle facing either direction in the scabbard, for right or left side mounting on a belt For cleaning, I would start with soft cloth and oil. Without knowing the extent of the rust it's hard to recommend more than that I'm sure the experts will be along shortly to help. I'm looking forward to the photos. If you like, I can snap a few shots of my Model of 1905 mounted on my 1944 M1 and post them so you can see what it looks like stuck on the business end of the rifle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_B Posted August 1, 2008 Author Share #28 Posted August 1, 2008 Oh- thanks everyone for the pics and stories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmeraldBat Posted October 21, 2009 Share #29 Posted October 21, 2009 I don't know if anyone is still monitoring this thread but I thought I'd post pictures of a 1906 RIA bayonet that is in my care temporarily. Most of the 6 is worn off, but the dot at the end of the upper curve is visible. The blade is in pretty nice shape. I don't know if the scabbard goes with it or not. It has no markings on it. Any comments on the scabbard would be welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Robinson Posted October 21, 2009 Share #30 Posted October 21, 2009 I don't know if anyone is still monitoring this thread but I thought I'd post pictures of a 1906 RIA bayonet that is in my care temporarily. Most of the 6 is worn off, but the dot at the end of the upper curve is visible. The blade is in pretty nice shape. I don't know if the scabbard goes with it or not. It has no markings on it. Any comments on the scabbard would be welcome. A post WW1 refinished bayonet many of which saw service in WW2. Scabbard is a Model of 1910 made in the WW2 period....most were unmarked. It's a correct scabbard for the bayonet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmeraldBat Posted October 21, 2009 Share #31 Posted October 21, 2009 Thanks for the great information. Always interesting to learn how equipment transitioned over time, staying in service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisky Beck Posted October 21, 2009 Share #32 Posted October 21, 2009 Chris_B you said you assumed your 1905 didn't go overseas in WWII because it had not been cut down or parkerized. That may or may not be the case, as least as far as the cutting down part. I know in Korea there was a famous bayonet charge made by an Army company (led by a captain who won the MOH) and they had the full length M1905 bayonets. By that time I would assume they were parkerized but who knows. In the supply system in wartime just about anyhting can and does happen. I have a fairly nice M1905 SA with the bright finish, can't remeber the date (an "ought 6" I think) that came with a plastic USN WWII scabbard and plastic grips. I replaced the grips and scabbard temporairly with repros until I can find nice originals to take their place. Unfortunately, just up from the tip the blade is badly pitted. I will take a photo and post it if anyone wants to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LtRGFRANK Posted October 21, 2009 Share #33 Posted October 21, 2009 Since I showed my SA bayonets on this post last year I have added a RIA 1918 Blued/Black with unmarked scabbard. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atb Posted October 21, 2009 Share #34 Posted October 21, 2009 Chris_B you said you assumed your 1905 didn't go overseas in WWII because it had not been cut down or parkerized. That may or may not be the case, as least as far as the cutting down part. I know in Korea there was a famous bayonet charge made by an Army company (led by a captain who won the MOH) and they had the full length M1905 bayonets. By that time I would assume they were parkerized but who knows. In the supply system in wartime just about anyhting can and does happen. I have a fairly nice M1905 SA with the bright finish, can't remeber the date (an "ought 6" I think) that came with a plastic USN WWII scabbard and plastic grips. I replaced the grips and scabbard temporairly with repros until I can find nice originals to take their place. Unfortunately, just up from the tip the blade is badly pitted. I will take a photo and post it if anyone wants to see it. What is the source for the information that the bayonets were full length? And M1905's versus M1942's? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisky Beck Posted October 22, 2009 Share #35 Posted October 22, 2009 atb I read it in a book loaned to me by a gun dealer in So Cal about 20 years ago. and you are right, they may have been 1942s...my memory is not that sharp as it used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_B Posted October 27, 2009 Author Share #36 Posted October 27, 2009 Well, I'm still monitoring the thread! Great bayonets guys With my 1905 being full length and with the presumably original grips, and being made in 1919, I feel the likely story is a stay-at-home bayonet rather than overseas service. There was no rust to speak of when I got it, even though some steel is scuffed and exposed, and I took most of that off with a cloth and oil. I have nothing to back up my feelings except my gut I used to know the guy's name from Korea...it will come to me later. If they had full-length bayos, I'd assume that by the '50s they would be second-issue "1942" model of 1905s. But if a 1919 model of 1905 had been in the bottom of the bin, its also true that they would have issued it in the '50s and sent it to Korea without thinking twice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rldarmstr Posted October 27, 2009 Share #37 Posted October 27, 2009 3 early sets. 2 1906 SA's and a 1909 RIA. All bright blades, untouched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWS Posted November 1, 2009 Share #38 Posted November 1, 2009 3 early sets. 2 1906 SA's and a 1909 RIA. All bright blades, untouched. The scabbard on the far right looks to be a first model, correct? Very nice collection, thanks for sharing. Any close-ups? Please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rldarmstr Posted November 1, 2009 Share #39 Posted November 1, 2009 I'm not the best photographer in the world. I think I got everything in focus anyway. Enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rldarmstr Posted November 1, 2009 Share #40 Posted November 1, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rldarmstr Posted November 1, 2009 Share #41 Posted November 1, 2009 [img[]http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt263/rldarmstr/Experimental005.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWS Posted November 1, 2009 Share #42 Posted November 1, 2009 Exquisite collection and I thank you again for sharing with us, those 1st model scabbards are like the proverbial hen's tooth today in any condition, let alone as nice as your's is. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron_brock Posted November 3, 2009 Share #43 Posted November 3, 2009 Exquisite collection and I thank you again for sharing with us, those 1st model scabbards are like the proverbial hen's tooth today in any condition, let alone as nice as your's is. :thumbsup: I agree, you hardly could find one in ANY condition. Excellent grouping, thanks for sharing. - Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atb Posted November 19, 2009 Share #44 Posted November 19, 2009 atb I read it in a book loaned to me by a gun dealer in So Cal about 20 years ago. and you are right, they may have been 1942s...my memory is not that sharp as it used to be. The officer was CPT Millet. He died a few days ago. He used the 10" M1 bayonet, not the 16" M1905. The longer bayonets should have all been replaced by the M1 by the Korean War. I have looked through many images of US troops in Korea during the war there and on the M1 rifle when a bayonet is fixed, it is an M1. In today's Washington Post newspaper is a Korean War picture of Millet with his bayonet and it is an M1. There is a print showing the bayonet attack that was done by one of those "historical" artists and it shows the soldiers with M1905 bayonets on their rifles. This is a major error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atb Posted November 20, 2009 Share #45 Posted November 20, 2009 I found the image: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKIPH Posted November 20, 2009 Share #46 Posted November 20, 2009 These are my early M1905's w/ a variety of scabbards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKIPH Posted November 20, 2009 Share #47 Posted November 20, 2009 Hey gang! Still working on the photography. Sorry the pic is a little small, a lot is lost. Looks better w/ a magnifying glass. SKIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DontEatCookie Posted May 31, 2010 Share #48 Posted May 31, 2010 Here is a clearer picture of the notches. Click for bigger. It would be pretty cool if those were kill marks, however to me they look like someone dropped a rifle and the sights hit the bayonet. Just what it looks like to me ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorwichCadet Posted June 19, 2010 Share #49 Posted June 19, 2010 I have two of the early ones. Here is one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColtM1911 Posted June 19, 2010 Share #50 Posted June 19, 2010 I have three M1905'a so far... - S.A. 1910 - S.A. 1918 - S.A. 1907 Also, - 1st and 2d variation M1917 scabbard - RIA 1910 dated m1905 leather scabbard (modified with the M1910 hook attachment) - An early M1910 scabbard with the drainhole on the leather tip. ENJOY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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