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WASP Wing From Grouping


Scarecrow
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First off my apologies for the photos, they are the best I can do with my wife's camera as she does not have a macro lens. So I know when I seek your opinions about these wings, there is nothing like physically "handling" them versus a photo Id.

 

These wings came in an Id'd WASP grouping I acquired a few years ago (from a R.I. WASP's estate). The group included her B-16 flight jacket and an awful lot of paperwork from her time as a WASP and reunion material. There were however two wings included in the grouping. One set is very obvious to me to be a reunion pair. This pair however I suspect may be authentic. At first glance they could be dismissed because they are PB not CB. I asked the seller and he told me that his mother bent one of the pins and in an effort to straighten snapped it off. Since it was her graduation wing she had it repaired and had a pin attachment applied, which she preferred. You can see where the pin attachment was soldered onto the wing and again does not appear to be original. So the story may be true, sounds plausible but I would like some more experienced Forum wing badge members to weigh in. Your thoughts always greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

Paul (aka Scarecrow)

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IMHO the wings are good. The WASP wing fakes that I'am familiar with the hallmark die is miscut or broken and one letter is missing a piece.Unfortunately I don't have a photo but they turn up routinely on eBay .Also they are long post clutch back. You have a rare and beautiful wing congratulations. Mike

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I have always operated under the assumption that all of the WW II era WASP lozenge wings made by Josten were clutch back but I could be wrong on that.

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I have always operated under the assumption that all of the WW II era WASP lozenge wings made by Josten were clutch back but I could be wrong on that.

 

 

If you notice above in Paul's first post, he explains that it was a documented repair.

 

...Kat

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Hello Paul,

 

Thank you for posting your WASP badge for review. As you mentioned in your opening sentence, the images your sharing do lack detail. From what I see, I have some concerns.

 

I'd like to offer you a few images of a bona fide WASP badge and have you determine if your wing matches up. Please keep in mind the following areas:

 

1. Upon loop inspection, is there any pitting or other evidence of casting on the surface of the reverse?

 

2. Does your wing display sharp, defined, 90 degrees edges...or are the edges slightly rounded and curved?

 

3. Viewing the front, do the shoulders display five very small vertically stacked feathers with crisp detail? Or do they appear more like bumps?

 

4. When inspecting the lower edge, are the recesses of the feathers crisply struck? Or lazy and somewhat rounded?

 

5. Is the Josten hallmark correct?

 

I look forward to your comparison report.

 

Russ

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

IMG_4573_crop.jpg

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Hi,

 

My first impression of the wing, without reading Russ' response, was that they appear to be a casting. There appears to be fine pitting on the reverse, the edges have some unusual effects for a die struck badge and there does not appear to be any finish on the wing. The overall appearance, in particular the reverse, is "soft", not die-struck "crisp".

 

If I saw this on eBay I would not even watch it. Maybe better pics will help?

 

Regards

Mike

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Does your wing display those five very small stacked feathers with distinct clarity? Or are they somewhat blurred and distorted?

 

 

IMG_4568_crop.jpg

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Hi Russ,

 

Thank you very much for weighing in. Your questions have taught me very much but at the same time I think, have pretty much confirmed for me that these are authentic wings. I will try and answer your questions to the best of my ability.

1.) There is absolutely no casting marks on the back of the wing. If I had even thought they were cast I wouldn't have even posted this thread. The current President of VH Blackinton is a personal friend of mine and I had him confirm for me that these were die struck and not cast. As Mike points out the photo does appear to show some casting pits, but that is apparently from the camera angle. Again, there is no pitting at all.

2.) The edges are sharp and clear at least as sharp and clear as the ones you show for comparison.

3.) The front does display the five vertically stacked feathers in pretty good detail and they do not appear as bumps. (Thank you for your your subsequent photos of these, as I was confused about them in your first post.)

4.) The lower edge recess of the feathers are sharp and crisp and not rounded.

5.) Again, not being an expert, so I can't definitely state the the Josten's hallmark is correct. But it does appear to be at least as sharp and crisp as the wing you display and is in the same location.

 

These did come directly from a documented WASP grouping and there is another definite cast reunion wing amoung the other items. When I have some time I will photograph all and post in the "Groupings" thread. She was in the 43-8 graduation class. And lived in NY and Westerly R.I.

 

I am not strictly a wing collector but do occasionally try and acquire wings from the Attleboro, MA manufacturers. (I was born, raised and still work in Attleboro, nicknamed the "Jewelry City"). So I have wings from Balfour, Jostens, Robbins, Amcraft, Krew and VH Blackinton (Attleboro Falls) and even Orber which is the next town over in Pawtucket RI. In fact years ago one of my clients was an old long time salesman for Balfour and he once showed me his old wing sample board, it was pretty impressive.

 

Unfortunately, the only ones left in Attleboro (or vicinity) are Robbins and VH Blackinton, the rest have either gone out of business or moved. And I don't believe Robbins even manufacturers military insignia any longer.

 

Again, I truly appreciate you sharing your WASP wing knowledge. It was a learning experience. And a follow up thanks to all the others that weighed in on this wing.

Paul

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Sorry but I'm going to have to disagree with some of you and I could be wrong but based on your photos these look like cast wings to me. Since you were asking for opinions I thought I'd give mine. I don't collect flight wings but I have been collecting US paratrooper wings for a long time and I've come across this same dark bluish coloring on cast paratrooper wings with the same soft details that rustywings was referring to. When they cast a piece it looks brand new so a chemical is applied to give it patina. However original patina is uneven in that it is darker in some areas and lighter in other areas especially where it may have been handled while being pinned on and off a uniform repeatedly. The patina finish on your wing looks artificially applied based on your photos. If you compare the back of rustywings piece and your wing you can see the differences in the sharpness of the perimeter edging as well as the sharpness of the lettering in these hallmarks. The lack of sharpness usually indicates a cast piece. It may just be the photos but there also appears to be some surface irregularities on the back of your wing which is what you sometimes find on cast as apposed to stamped pieces. The last thing I don't like is that this is a pin back despite the repair explanation given as original wings were all clutch back. So in my opinion this is probably a second reunion pair of WASP wings.

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I am no expert but from my experience my gut reaction on the first photo is reproduction. I maybe 100% wrong and apologize in advance if I am.

 

Here is one of many posts on the topic for you to look at. I hope you find this helpful in some way.

 

Cheers

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/58421-wasp-wings/

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In my opinion, the wing is cast. I have one just like it except it still has the clutch pins on it. It is in my "Box of Tears" which is labeled "Things Learned the Hard Way".

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In my opinion, the wing is cast. I have one just like it except it still has the clutch pins on it. It is in my "Box of Tears" which is labeled "Things Learned the Hard Way".

Is it possible for you to post some photos for the OP to compare please.

 

Thanks

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I knew you were going to ask me to do that John and my photographic abilities just suck! Here is the front. Note the softness of detail in the shoulder area that Russ points out in his EXCELLENT posts:

 

 

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And the back. The little dark spots are casting pits. Also, as Russ notes, the Josten mark does not compare well to known originals:

 

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Pits also exist in the dark areas but they don't show up in my photo. This was a very expensive lesson learned the hard way.

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