Dr_rambow Posted October 10, 2013 Share #1 Posted October 10, 2013 I found these recently, while happy to have an example (real or fake), I find them to be suspicious. The casting seems rather rough, but it is tough to find close up images to compare to originals. Also, each hook has a very distinctly off-center appearance. Someone was obviously using them, but how old they are is beyond me. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyCanteen Posted October 10, 2013 Share #2 Posted October 10, 2013 I can't tell, but they look ok from what I can see. I think one of the WWI reenacting vendors did offer some reproductions for a while, perhaps it was Schipperfabrik. Edit: Here is the link: http://schipperfabrik.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=117_120_121&products_id=219 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_rambow Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share #3 Posted October 10, 2013 That's what I thought too, but the schipper pegs look don't have the "bent" hook on them and appear to be a slightly different overall pattern. Also, note the chunk missing from one of the pegs in the first image. This is by far the worst, but some others have small air bubbles similar to this. Thanks for the input! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyCanteen Posted October 10, 2013 Share #4 Posted October 10, 2013 Yeah, they appear to be original to from what I see. I do not know of anyone who has cast them other than the mentioned site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_rambow Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share #5 Posted October 10, 2013 That is good news! Do you know of a good reference for these? In my shallow research I have noticed several patterns and it would be interesting to know if these were specified by the ordnance department or were simply manufacturing differences. Thanks for the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hist3891 Posted October 10, 2013 Share #6 Posted October 10, 2013 Perhaps I can shed some light on this topic. For several years, I had permission to metal detect a number of campsites used by National Guard troops during WWI. These camps were first occupied in the Fall of 1917 and abandoned in early 1919, so they provide a fairly good picture of some of the field gear that was in circulation at the time. Two kinds of metal tent pins were in use. The most common type is the one pictured in the left of the attached photos. It measures five inches and is made of aluminum. I have dug many of these, and suspect that they were issued in large numbers to the National Guard during the Mexican Border campaign and the initial WWI mobilization. Being aluminum, they had a marked tendency to bend and deform in hard soil. The second type is pictured at right. It also measures five inches, but appears to be made of zinc. I have only found three or four examples of these, so they seem to have been issued in relatively small numbers. They didn’t bend like the aluminum pins, but were prone to breaking in the middle (as shown in the attached photos). The key features of the zinc pin is as follows: 1) The top of the pin head is flat for half an inch (consistent with the shaft of the pin), then has a groove in the center of the hook as it angles down. 2) The reverse of the pin is flat for half an inch at the top, then grooved all the way down to the tip of the pin. At the very least, I believe that the hooks of your pins are shaped a little differently from the dug zinc example. I would welcome additional feedback on this subject, especially from anyone who has experience digging AEF camps in France. Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hist3891 Posted October 10, 2013 Share #7 Posted October 10, 2013 Close up of pin hooks - side view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hist3891 Posted October 10, 2013 Share #8 Posted October 10, 2013 Close-up of pin heads, reverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hist3891 Posted October 10, 2013 Share #9 Posted October 10, 2013 Close-up, zinc pin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solcarlus Posted October 11, 2013 Share #10 Posted October 11, 2013 Bonjour. We find three types of poles in areas where parked the AEF The first photo shows two models. They resist very hard to stay in the ground. It may be noted that the hooks are not in the axis. On the far right we see the third mod post, which is much more resistant to the ravages of time. Regards sol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_rambow Posted October 11, 2013 Author Share #11 Posted October 11, 2013 You both have been very helpful! Very cool finds! I find it interesting that even with the oxidation on those pegs, It looks like there is still a casting seam on some of them. It also seems that you have found a perfect match to my example, solcarlus. I feel much better about these now. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solcarlus Posted October 11, 2013 Share #12 Posted October 11, 2013 Should I clean copy to see some traces of mold. sol. Not good on the stones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atb Posted October 11, 2013 Share #13 Posted October 11, 2013 I have the Army specifications for the first and second type of aluminum shelter tent pins. The first, 1137, is for the sheet aluminum pins and the second, 1230, for at least one variety of the cast aluminum pins. I do not know if separate specifications exist for the other variations of cast pins I have run across. The next two specifications, 1276 in 1917 and 1299 in 1918, are for the wooden shelter tent pins.I will post Specification No. 1230 in a second posting. Doc1.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atb Posted October 11, 2013 Share #14 Posted October 11, 2013 Here is the extract from Specification No. 1230 for Shelter Tents and Pins that concerns the cast aluminum pins. It is from 1915. Spec. 1230 extract, shelter tent pins.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtpeter Posted February 3, 2017 Share #15 Posted February 3, 2017 ATB - do you have the specification 1276 and 1299 you can share? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jprostak Posted February 3, 2017 Share #16 Posted February 3, 2017 Here is one for that I found at the National Archives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jprostak Posted February 3, 2017 Share #17 Posted February 3, 2017 and 2 more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keystone Posted February 4, 2017 Share #18 Posted February 4, 2017 Interesting discussion. I have all three type pins discussed here. I also have a pole dated 1914 that has "SPEC 1136" stamped on it and a 1917 dated shelter half with "SPEC no. 1230" stamped on the tag. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world war I nerd Posted February 5, 2017 Share #19 Posted February 5, 2017 I'm not sure how complete this list is, but here's what I have on pre-WW I through WW I shelter halves, poles & pins ... U.S. Army Shelter Halves, Poles & Pins 1876 to 1918 Shelter Halves Specification No. 247, Shelter Tent Halves, adopted on January 18, 1889 Specification No. 323, Shelter Tent, Halves, adopted on March 9, 1892 Specification No. 351, Shelter Tent, Halves, adopted on May 31, 1894 Specification No. 405, Shelter Tent, Halves, adopted on June 1, 1896 Specification No. 501, Shelter Tent, Halves & Clothing Roll Combined, adopted on January 31, 1901 Specification No. 575, Shelter Tent, Halves & Clothing Roll Combined, adopted on May 23, 1902 Specification No. 984, Shelter Tent, Halves & Clothing Roll Combined, adopted on August 4, 1908 Specification No, 1015, Shelter Tent, Halves & Clothing Roll Combined, adopted on March 16, 1909 Specification No. 1138, Shelter Tent, Dismounted, adopted on September 14, 1911 Specification No. 1169, Shelter Tent, Duck, adopted on September 16, 1912 Specification No. 1170, Shelter Tent, Dismounted troops, adopted on October 15, 1912 Specification No. 1179, Shelter Tent Mounted Troops, adopted on April 10, 1913 Specification No. 1299, Shelter Tent, adopted on (Day & Month Unknown) late 1917 or early 1918 Poles & Pins Specification No. 48, Shelter Tent Poles, adopted on March 12, 1879 Specification No. 217, Tent Pins, adopted on January 5, 1889 Specification No. 601, Shelter Tent Poles, adopted on March 5, 1903 Specification No. 673, Shelter Tent Poles, adopted on June 2, 1904 Specification No. 958, Shelter Tent Pins, adopted on May 25, 1908 Specification No. 1024, Shelter Tent Pins, adopted on May 26, 1909 Specification No. 1136, Shelter Tent Poles, adopted on September 11, 1911 Specification No. 1137, Shelter Tent Pins, Aluminum, adopted on September 17, 1911 Specification No. 1230, Shelter Tent Pins, adopted on July 1, 1915 Specification No. 1276 Shelter Tent Pins, adopted on September 19, 1917 Specification No. 1302, Shelter Tent poles, adopted on (Day & Month Unknown) 1918 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keystone Posted February 5, 2017 Share #20 Posted February 5, 2017 Excellent post world war 1 nerd! Here are four of my pre-WW1 halves: From left to right I believe they would be first, Spec 501 or 575. This half has the large grommet for the 2 piece pole with the 1/2 inch post at the top. It is marked "Schuylkill Arsenal and is dated either 1902 or 1903, the last number is tough to make out. Next would be Spec 575?, this one is identical to the first except the grommet is smaller and won't fit the 2 piece pole. This one is contract dated July 1908 so I'm assuming it is not Spec 984 which is dated August 1908. The third from left I think is Spec 984 or 1015. This one has the metal buttons and the sewn loops to make the blanket roll. The only marking on this one is the "Phila Depot" inspector stamp. The last one on the right is identical to the third except for the color. Since the uniform change to O.D. was in 1909 I would assume this is after that and is Spec 1015, 1169 or 1179. I will see if I can get some pictures of my dismounted shelter halves on later. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keystone Posted February 5, 2017 Share #21 Posted February 5, 2017 Here is a photo of my 2 marked poles. They are both manufactured by Ernest Law & co. The 1903 pole is 47 inches overall and is the same height as the two piece pole. The 1914 dated pole, which is marked "SPEC 1136" is 43 1/2 inches overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keystone Posted February 5, 2017 Share #22 Posted February 5, 2017 Close up of the markings on the 1914 pole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keystone Posted February 5, 2017 Share #23 Posted February 5, 2017 Here is the tag similar to mine that I grabbed off of the AGM website. Their photo is easier to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world war I nerd Posted February 6, 2017 Share #24 Posted February 6, 2017 Keystone, those are some great examples of early shelter halves & poles ... all ow which are very tough to find, even without any markings. How do the buttons on your shelter halves differ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keystone Posted February 6, 2017 Share #25 Posted February 6, 2017 Keystone, those are some great examples of early shelter halves & poles ... all ow which are very tough to find, even without any markings. How do the buttons on your shelter halves differ? The 1902 (or 1903) dated one and the 1908 dated one have the white bone buttons and the later two are the metal tack buttons. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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