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US M-1 vs. Euro Clone Helmet Components Guide!


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#26 Johan Willaert

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 05:40 AM

Typically displaying the Belgian national flag on each side. This is also often to be found on Belgian shells too.

 

 

Flag on left side only, both an liner and shell...

 

Also Belgian liner domes aren't as deep as US WW2 ones... hence an Original WW2 liner only fits poorly in a post WW2 Belgian shell...



#27 Sabrejet

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 05:41 AM

Thanks for the correction Johan....can't argue with a serving member of the Belgian Army who once wore these for real!!   :D


Edited by Sabrejet, 25 September 2013 - 05:43 AM.


#28 Sabrejet

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 05:53 AM

This is a Danish M1 liner of the type which frequently shows up on eBay as an "original US M1 liner". It's clearly made of a hard grey/green ballistic plastic and uses some of the components shown in this thread.

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#29 Sabrejet

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 07:05 AM

Here's a classic plastic Euro liner, as above,  wrongly described as a "Reproduction US WW2 M1 Liner..." currently on eBayUS.

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item4858025bca


Edited by Sabrejet, 25 September 2013 - 07:06 AM.


#30 Wojo1072

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 08:46 AM

Great post, very informative!  I've long suspected that the chin straps on the very first helmet I ever acquired (and still have) are not original.  They are good on some points (for example, the bar tacking is perfect), but something didn't look quite right about the weave of the fabric and, most notably, the hardware was glossy and copper-colored where the black had worn off.  I've gone back and forth about them, mostly leaning towards them being replacements, but the spot-on bar tacking would lead me back towards them maybe being original.  Now I know for certain.  Thanks - Jon.



#31 Sabrejet

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 08:57 AM

Thanks Jon. Post-war US hardware, being chemically "blackened" has a matt, dark grey finish...almost like parkerizing. When it wears off, the metal beneath is silver. That said, I have some "P" marked clips which have a kind of glossy finish...but it's more like bluing and definitely not paint! Earlier 50s hardware would be painted light OD, of course...but silver where it wears away.



#32 Sabrejet

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 09:09 AM

Edit for post #12. The type of Euro webbing shown there does not have a white cotton core, but some other variants do, as can be seen in a subsequent post.



#33 Sabrejet

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 09:43 AM

Euro chinstrap with green painted hardware...possibly used on the later versions of the French Casque '51 ? Note the white core in this style of webbing.

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  • SKU2347Eweb.jpg


#34 john k

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 03:15 PM

Ian thank you for this thread.  I had hoped to start something similar but didn't have much to start with so this is a great help.  

 

Now here's my riddle.  The helmet on the left came with the non marked, one piece nape strap that appears to be Belgin, and the rest of the webbing other than the sweatband (looks to be US, dated 1959, US clips) seems to match the nape strap.  The rivets appear to be orignial and not re-works, the liner is a capac.  I'm stumped, what is this?  

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  • helmet comparison.jpg

Edited by john k, 25 September 2013 - 03:19 PM.


#35 john k

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 03:16 PM

The nape

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  • nape1.jpg


#36 Sabrejet

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 09:41 PM

Hmmm. I suppose we need to find out if (initially at least) US made liners were supplied to the European countries such as Belgium and subsequently refurbished before they began production of their own model.



#37 m1ashooter

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 10:56 PM

Thank you for the education.



#38 Welshman

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 03:57 AM

This one was sold to me, as a early Belgium liner, can you see how the webbing is attached to the inside of the liner.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

post-123228-0-69148900-1378657595.jpg



#39 Welshman

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 05:11 AM

Here at two photos of my plastic liners, the one inside the helmet, is a olive drab colour, the other, looks to me a blue.

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  • PLASTIC LINERS.JPG

Edited by Welshman, 26 September 2013 - 05:32 AM.


#40 Sabrejet

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 05:14 AM

Dave...did the sweatbands come with the liners? If so, are they of the HBT weave with flat profile clips like I posted earlier? Any markings at all?



#41 Johan Willaert

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 05:18 AM

Belgian liners came in different pattern over time...

 

Early ones were similar to the US WW2 high pressure models, complete with insignia eyelet up front... A-washers were either riveted, screwed-on or even fixed with semi-round clips...

 

Later on liners were molded from plastic...

 

Liners and shells made or painted blue were Air Force issue...



#42 Johan Willaert

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 05:19 AM

Ian,

 

Do you still have the pictures of the 1960's NOS Belgian Helmet I sent you a while ago... Those clearly show the early cork finish on the shell, while later helmet shells were smooth...



#43 Sabrejet

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 05:24 AM

Ian,

 

Do you still have the pictures of the 1960's NOS Belgian Helmet I sent you a while ago... Those clearly show the early cork finish on the shell, while later helmet shells were smooth...

 

Johan...I think they are best described as "lost"...sorry!  Can you re-post them here maybe?



#44 Johan Willaert

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 05:34 AM

WOuld have to get the helmet out of storage and shoot some pictures... Will do this weekend...

 

JOhan



#45 Welshman

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 05:38 AM

Belgian liners came in different pattern over time...

 

Early ones were similar to the US WW2 high pressure models, complete with insignia eyelet up front... A-washers were either riveted, screwed-on or even fixed with semi-round clips...

 

Later on liners were molded from plastic...

 

Liners and shells made or painted blue were Air Force issue...

 

Hi Johan Willaert

 

The photo of my early Belgium liner, as the insignia eyelet at front, this one, the webbing is attached my little nuts, and screw head bolts, first one I have seen like this, but then I'm new to all this.

 

Welshman



#46 Welshman

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 07:30 AM

Dave...did the sweatbands come with the liners? If so, are they of the HBT weave with flat profile clips like I posted earlier? Any markings at all?

 

Hi Ian

 

The sweatbands came with the liners, 1st photo of sweatband came out of the blue liner, 2nd out of olive drab liner.

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  • BLUE LINER.jpg


#47 Welshman

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 07:34 AM

Dave...did the sweatbands come with the liners? If so, are they of the HBT weave with flat profile clips like I posted earlier? Any markings at all?

 

The sweatbands came with the liners, can't find any markings on them. 1st sweatband photo came out of the blue liner, 2nd sweatband out of olive drab liner.

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  • GREEN LINER.jpg


#48 Sabrejet

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 07:46 AM

Classic Euro-sweatband. Thanks for posting.



#49 Welshman

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 10:06 AM

I'm upset now :blush: , their not rare then :o



#50 cavscout6b

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 12:14 PM

In reference to the US liners provided early in production: -YES (sort of')
From what I was told; Denmark and possibly Norway were initially provided with US helmets, along with US liners. The damp climate proved hard conditions on the fiber liners, and most were eventually replaced with the plastic. (First run of plastic liners-1957) New production came standard with plastc. Occasionally a Danish helmet can be found with a WW2 US liner.

I was also under the impression, that despite minor differences & nationalities, many of the European M1 shells were produced by Ulbricht in Austria. (U.SCH) - Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Norway, (and the Netherlands?) contracted U.SCH production. The liners were often respective national production or replacement.

SABREJET: Excellent info and thread. VERY useful.

Edited by cavscout6b, 26 September 2013 - 12:22 PM.



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