epaulettes Posted August 29, 2013 Share #1 Posted August 29, 2013 Looks like a coast guard warrant officer surfman during that short period when warrant officer stripes did not have blue breaks. But on khaki?? Can anyone identify exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtA Posted August 29, 2013 Share #2 Posted August 29, 2013 Wow. That is really cool. First I've seen. Odd though that it has a USN button. I wonder if that was replaced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefighter Posted August 30, 2013 Share #3 Posted August 30, 2013 Sure its not an ensign? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtA Posted August 30, 2013 Share #4 Posted August 30, 2013 I believe the single thin stripe for this period does indicate Warrant Officer. This is a very scarce shoulder board, especially with the Surfman connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefighter Posted August 30, 2013 Share #5 Posted August 30, 2013 warrant officers The Warrant Officers of the U. S. Coast Guard are required to have completeoutfits of blue dress, blue service dress, and for all except the Keepers ofLife Saving Stations, white service uniforms. The Keepers of Life SavingStations are required to have an olive drab cotton service uniform in lieu ofthe white service uniform required for other warrant officers. The Blue Dress Uniform for Warrant officers is the same as the blue service uniform for commissioned officers except that in place of the gold braid on the sleeves of the coat there is one stripe of black mohair braid oneinch in width, and on each side of the collar the insignia of rank are worn, these insignia being for the various ranks as follows : Master's Mate. - Two gilt foul anchors crossed surcharged with a silver shield. Keeper - A gilt life buoy surcharged with two gilt oars crossed. Boatswain. - Two gilt foul anchors crossed.Gunner - A gilt spherical shell bursting into flame.Carpenter. - A gilt carpenter's square. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulR Posted August 30, 2013 Share #6 Posted August 30, 2013 This is really freaking awesome! Nice find! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefighter Posted August 30, 2013 Share #7 Posted August 30, 2013 Forgot to ask.Is it just one board or a pair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin B. Posted August 30, 2013 Share #8 Posted August 30, 2013 Wow, that's a new one to me. I have never seen a USN/USCG board with background other than navy blue. Is the cloth khaki or more OD? Is it wool? The USN WOs wore the "un-broken" gold stripes roughly 1920-1922. The USCG WO rank of Keeper, which that insignia would seem to indicate, was merged into Boatswain in May 1920. A pretty small window when that insignia would have been used officially, if it was ever regulation, which I am not sure about. A mystery, but a really interesting one! Justin B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtA Posted August 30, 2013 Share #9 Posted August 30, 2013 warrant officers The Warrant Officers of the U. S. Coast Guard are required to have completeoutfits of blue dress, blue service dress, and for all except the Keepers ofLife Saving Stations, white service uniforms. The Keepers of Life SavingStations are required to have an olive drab cotton service uniform in lieu ofthe white service uniform required for other warrant officers. The Blue Dress Uniform for Warrant officers is the same as the blue service uniform for commissioned officers except that in place of the gold braid on the sleeves of the coat there is one stripe of black mohair braid one inch in width, and on each side of the collar the insignia of rank are worn, these insignia being for the various ranks as follows : Master's Mate. - Two gilt foul anchors crossed surcharged with a silver shield. Keeper - A gilt life buoy surcharged with two gilt oars crossed. Boatswain. - Two gilt foul anchors crossed. Gunner - A gilt spherical shell bursting into flame. Carpenter. - A gilt carpenter's square. Excellent info. Was there a date on the document/reg you pulled this from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin B. Posted August 30, 2013 Share #10 Posted August 30, 2013 Excellent info. Was there a date on the document/reg you pulled this from? I don't want to speak for firefghter but there's something like that in Army and Navy Uniforms and Insignia by Dion Williams, 1918. The 1916 USGC regulations for warrant and enlisted personnel are also available here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefighter Posted August 30, 2013 Share #11 Posted August 30, 2013 Excellent info. Was there a date on the document/reg you pulled this from? It was this site.1918 regs. http://www.uscg.mil/history/docs/USCG1918Uniforms_D_Williams.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefighter Posted August 30, 2013 Share #12 Posted August 30, 2013 Here is another good site. http://www.uscg.mil/history/docs/USCGRating_Warrant_Marks.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epaulettes Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share #13 Posted August 30, 2013 Wow. That is really cool. First I've seen. Odd though that it has a USN button. I wonder if that was replaced? in my experience the coast guard used navy buttons quite a lot. Guess CG buttons were hard to come by. Most CG epaulettes have navy buttons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epaulettes Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share #14 Posted August 30, 2013 Sure its not an ensign? It is not an Ensign, the stripe is narrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epaulettes Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share #15 Posted August 30, 2013 Forgot to ask.Is it just one board or a pair? just a single Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MastersMate Posted October 30, 2016 Share #16 Posted October 30, 2016 I have been looking for quite a while and just picked this one off e-bay. It is for the shoulder of the whites or winter overcoat. Attached though, is a photo I have cropped out the interesting part. This is from a group shot of the crew of the CGC Earp. an EAGLE boat that was in Coast Guard service for just a few years very early 1920s. Among the missing is the 1920 CG Regulations and the 1922 CG Uniform regulations. If those ever surface, an important transition in CG uniforms will be solved. These were posted once on the old 'Freds Place" a discussion board part of military.com. They were from the family collection of Sigurd Christiansen, a Boatswain from the Revenue Cutter Service up through WW2. His half brother Karl Varness was also a very early CG boatswain. Interesting thing is that both of them were acting warrant officers in 1920 when the CG adopted the USN rate system. They were among the first CPOs in the Coast Guard. A very interesting family to track.. Anyway, this is not Sigurd Christiansen but some very salty looking old warrant boatswain from the EARP about 1921 or so. Other photos in the EARP collection show warrant gunner John Ask wearing USN WO insignia.. Enjoy.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MastersMate Posted October 30, 2016 Share #17 Posted October 30, 2016 A minor item that sometimes gets overlooked in the fine print. That is the Olive Drab Surfman and Keepers uniforms. The 1916 USCG Uniform regs describe the Keepers O/D uniform as being of the same cut as the blue 'choker' type tunic. The 1918 book by Col. Williams notes something to the effect that the WO service whites were changed to the same style as commissioned officers. That is, the choker neck, pockets on the breast anf 5 buttons down the front. WOs were still wearing collar devices.. From the 1916 regs, the Keepers O/D service dress is described as the same style as the blue choker. Since the stations did not wear whites, it is not too far a stretch of the imagination to see the Keepers O/D tunic changing to the same style as choker whites. Then it that 1920 - 1922 time of uniform confusion, the Keepers could have easily picked up these , maybe, prototype shoulder marks. They lost the lifering/oars collar insignia and became Boatswains. You see a lot of enlisted surfmen wearing the collar insignia,post 1920, on their blue choker tunics. No paperwork to back that up so it is just a theory so far, but it makes sense to me, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MastersMate Posted November 2, 2016 Share #18 Posted November 2, 2016 This shoulder mark has piqued my curiosity again. Have gone over old photos from about 1930, and it appears that the Coast Guard warrant officer wore the single stripe without the blue breaks from 1920 up until the 1930 uniform regulations were published. Have not yet found any photos of the chief warrant officer from the 1924 to 1930 period. The CG was not authorized to have CWOs until 1924. Will be interesting if they also followed the USN style and wore a 1/2" stripe with the shield and specialty mark.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MastersMate Posted November 3, 2016 Share #19 Posted November 3, 2016 A photo of the Officer in Charge of a Lifeboat Station on the NJ coastline in 1930. Service dress blue and the sleeve stripe is 1/4' solid.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MastersMate Posted November 3, 2016 Share #20 Posted November 3, 2016 Warrant Boatswain from the cutter branch .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin B. Posted November 3, 2016 Share #21 Posted November 3, 2016 This is fascinating. The USN CWO/WO all-gold stripes lasted a fairly short time, 1919 to 1922. Just a wild guess, but maybe the USCG took the USN's lead in 1920 when a lot of rank/rate changes were made, but then "froze" at that point. I suspect that the Navy changed back to blue-broken stripes because the CWO insignia looked too much like an ensign, but that would't be as much of problem for the CG, with their "extra" devices above the stripes.Was 1941 the first time USCG uniform regulations were just the USN publication with revisions inserted?Thanks a lot for the posts!Justin B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MastersMate Posted November 3, 2016 Share #22 Posted November 3, 2016 Correct, the 1941 USN uniform regs were adopted by the CG. Specific CG changes were added as addendum. In 1976 the CG webt back to their own uniform regs with the 'new' Bender Blue uniform. I have a request to the archives for any CG uniform regs covering the period from 1920 to 1930. 1930 has the CG publishing a good set un uniform regs. I believe they also published uniform regs in 1922 but have been unable to locate them anywhere. I am going to believe that they are most likely a copy of the USN regs, with CG specific insignia instructions. So far, just old photos to piece together a best estimate of how uniforms fleshed out during that era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MastersMate Posted November 3, 2016 Share #23 Posted November 3, 2016 Another old photo from the info about the USCGC EARP in 1920. From the CG register of officers and crew list of USCGC Ossippee for May 1920. John Ask was made Chief Gunnersmate by General Order 43 and transferred to one of the Eagle Boats at Baltimore. He was quickly transferred over to the Earp after arriving in Baltimore. By GO 43 he went from an ACTING WO to CGM to WO in the change over period. I believe this happened so fast, the CG did not even consider uniform changes until after the dust settled. Looks like the WO purchased what was available and used it. Other photos show an assortment of WO insignia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MastersMate Posted January 6, 2017 Share #24 Posted January 6, 2017 Got to read over the 1923 Coast Guard uniform regs for commissioned and warrant officers. Not a whole lot different from the 1930 CG Uniform regs that cover both officers and enlisted. Most notable difference was the warrant officers. The Warrant Officer was prescribed a single 1/4" gold stripe on the sleeve and shoulder mark. In the summer of 1924 when the CG was authorized to have the CWO, an amendment prescribed the commissioned officer cap device, a 1/2" gold stripe with the blue break at 2" intervals and the sword knot. The 1930 CG uniform regs designated the blue breaks for both the WO and CWO. As far as the original photo goes. A possibility would be that between 1919 and 1920, CG uniform regs amended the WO olive drab and whites to eliminate the collar device and authorized shoulder marks for the WO corps. After May 1920 the Keeper became a Boatswain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin B. Posted January 6, 2017 Share #25 Posted January 6, 2017 Got to read over the 1923 Coast Guard uniform regs for commissioned and warrant officers. Not a whole lot different from the 1930 CG Uniform regs that cover both officers and enlisted. Most notable difference was the warrant officers. The Warrant Officer was prescribed a single 1/4" gold stripe on the sleeve and shoulder mark. In the summer of 1924 when the CG was authorized to have the CWO, an amendment prescribed the commissioned officer cap device, a 1/2" gold stripe with the blue break at 2" intervals and the sword knot. The 1930 CG uniform regs designated the blue breaks for both the WO and CWO. Wonderful information, thanks a lot! Justin B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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