The great garrison cap mystery...help required!

[Sabrejet]

Regular forum-ers will be aware that I have a large collection of WW2 garrison caps in both khaki and OD. I'm well on the way to achieving my ultimate objective of collecting all of the BoS colours. However....I have an increasing number of genuine USGI caps with coloured braids which do not conform to any of the official lists I've seen! Some I've posted here in the past but I thought it might be worth one last shot, so I've gathered them all together and invite your comments and observations.

 

I should point out that all of the braids are in perfect condition...none have been changed by fading. Also all of the caps have been used...some have QM labels, names and laundry numbers, so there's no doubting their military heritage.

 

Firstly an OD /Khaki pair I recently acquired from Wedgehead30 / aka Scott. The braiding is solid maroon. No such colour appears on the list. The closest is the Medical Corps which is maroon/white.

 

 

[Sabrejet]

Cont'd..

[Sabrejet]

Next..."rose pink". Again, no such colour is listed, but this is not unique as other forum members have similar ones too.

[Sabrejet]

This OD cap has red/black piping. The closest I can find is the dark blue / scarlet red of the Adjutant General's Department....but this is most definitely black/red!

[Sabrejet]

Cont'd...

 

 

[empireguns]

Easy, it's the Don't Ask, Don't Tell troops. and they are FAAAbulous!

[Sabrejet]

This one I would describe as cerise / golden yellow. Again, no such colour combination is listed. The closest is the brick red / golden yellow of the Transportation Corps. I actually have one of those and side by side with this one they are quite different!

[Sabrejet]

Cont'd...

[ColdWarRules]

I know pink is another color for medical troops. But I'm not too sure.

[cutiger83]

Ian,

 

I wonder if the maroon ones could be flight nurse caps. In the early days, their caps were maroon not black/gold like the officer's caps. They were also shaped like the men's caps not the later women's caps.

 

Please look at garrison cap #4 on the Blitzkrieg website. Is this one yours?

 

http://www.blitzkriegbaby.de/homepage.htm

 

Thanks....Kat

[Sabrejet]

By golly, that's a hot lead Kat...thank you! They are certainly cut like men's caps but do have that solid maroon! So....maybe we have a winner here?!

[cutiger83]

By golly, that's a hot lead Kat...thank you! They are certainly cut like men's caps but do have that solid maroon! So....maybe we have a winner here?!

 

 

I am so jealous! And thanks to Terry. He posted a picture of a flight nurse cap last week which got me interested in looking up flight nurse caps. His is the later black/gold. We were both saying we had never seen a maroon one!

 

....Kat

[Sabrejet]

 

 

I am so jealous! And thanks to Terry. He posted a picture of a flight nurse cap last week which got me interested in looking up flight nurse caps. His is the later black/gold. We were both saying we had never seen a maroon one!

 

....Kat

 

 

So it's a double whammy for me? Well, unless someone comes up with something different, I'll assume they are "first pattern" Flight Nurse caps. Thanks Kat!

[littlebuddy]

mmm collecting womens clothing now are we Ian

[Jeeper704]

This OD cap has red/black piping. The closest I can find is the dark blue / scarlet red of the Adjutant General's Department....but this is most definitely black/red!

 

 

I used to have such an overseas cap in my former collection.

All I know about it is that the seller said it was "self-propelled artillery" or "assault artillery".

But I can't acknowledge that as I never did find out what branch it was.

 

Erwin

[craig_pickrall]

You have probably already looked at these sources but in case you have not I will mention them.

 

There were many ROTC units at colleges in the US during the war years. This dropped off after the war of course. So there may have been some colors used by them (school colors) that ceased to be used post war. Another possibility is all of the civilian organizations that wore military style uniforms during the war. Some of these had people serving overseas and some were strictly state side.

[Sabrejet]

Thanks Erwin and Craig. Yes Craig...the ROTC thing had occurred to me but I don't know of a definitive reference for those.

[J_Andrews]

Give him a break. Pink might be one of the national colors of Wales...or Cornwall...or the California NG.

 

Solid maroon piping was used on Army Nurse Corps BLUE, PRE-war (actually through 1942) uniforms. As Nurses (vice Nursing Assistants) were OFFICFERS, they would wear the mixed black-gold piping on any OD uniform. Do not know if ENLISTED nursing assts/ward orderlies/etc. would have worn the blue unif and maybe SOLID maroon piping.

 

 

Keep in mind that the Medical "branch" consisted of PLURAL branches under the Medical DEPARTMENT. The Medical CORPS (branch) was Physicians; the Dental Corps was dentists; the Veterinary Corps was vets, etc. Whether enlisted helpers were full-fledged members of the Corps they worked in, who knows? Maybe the solid maroon was a "tribal item" affectation on just one of those Corps, or even just one school/tng cen.

[Sabrejet]

Thank you John. Yes, I'm leaning towards flight nurses as I've been reliably informed, as you said, that maroon was their BoS colour and, perhaps more significantly, apparently their caps were initially cut like men's caps before changing to the more familiar "banana" shape!

[patches]

Where these Flight Nurse caps made in OD and Khaki? on that site it says Blue, Dark Blue and Beige.

 

Ian does these two maroon piped caps have QM Tags?

[Sabrejet]

The khaki one does and is named...I already have NARA ID courtesy of Kat...but no BoS. The OD cap is private purchase/officer quality...leatherette sweatband and silky rayon lining. Just has a size/lot label.

[hueytaxi]

Just a reminder that during WWII there were home guard units who manned forest towers, water towers, etc, in strategic areas. I have seen photos of my grandfather in b/w photos wearing a garrison cap with civilian clothes. He was a SP/AM war vet.

[cutiger83]

Where these Flight Nurse caps made in OD and Khaki? on that site it says Blue, Dark Blue and Beige.

 

 

 

Patches,

 

I am not sure about the OD and Khaki. I believe you are correct about the beige color. Looks like the nurses wore the beige and blue colors. This was all prior to 1943.

 

Ian, is your cap beige or khaki? After I added this post, I see you said it is khaki. If it is not beige then maybe it is not a nurse's cap but someone else in the medical profession.

 

I just found this on the Wikipedia website:

 

Nurses attached to the AAF wore Army hospital whites, or prior to 1943, the ANC winter service uniform consisting of the ANC pattern dark blue cap or garrison cap with maroon piping, suit jacket with maroon cuff braid and gold army buttons, light blue or white shirt, black tie and light blue skirt, shoes were black or white. The ANC summer service uniform consisted of a similar suit in beige with maroon shoulder strap piping and cuff braid, beige ANC cap or beige garrison cap with maroon piping, white shirt, and black four-in-hand tie. During World War II the first flight nurses uniform consisted of a blue wool battle dress jacket, blue wool trousers and a blue wool men's style maroon piped garrison cap. The uniform was worn with either the ANC light blue or white shirt and black tie.

 

I sent someone on here this link who is the walking encyclopedia of Army nurses so hopefully she will look at this when she gets a chance. Hopefully she can let us know about the khaki and OD for nurses.

 

.....Kat

[patches]

QM Tags if they are in there Bitte, also I'll wager the Blue and Beige Flight Nurse Caps that looked like Mens had nomenclature QM tags that stated the fact they were for Female Flight Nurses

[cutiger83]

QM Tags if they are in there Bitte, also I'll wager the Blue and Beige Flight Nurse Caps that looked like Mens had nomenclature QM tags that stated the fact they were for Female Flight Nurses

 

 

 

Patches,

 

I honestly do not know if the early ones said they were for flight nurses. The later one's with the officer piping did (Terry posted on on here) but I am not sure about the earlier ones. I will look thru some reference books tonight.

 

I am just curious. What is the difference between the beige color mentioned for the flight nurses and the khaki color? I assume they are much lighter in color but how much lighter. I would love to see the two colors next to each other.

 

Thanks, Kat