Need help identifying EGA

[MurfreesboroMemphis]

So this EGA is going on Ebay right now. Its labeled as a 1920 model and is very similar in appearance to a pair I have on a 1922 dated set of Blues. My question is, is this correct? I've been comparing pictures of this EGA to other under the reference sections and I feel like there are a lot of differences between this EGA and those posted in the M 1920 section. For one, the wings look more narrow than many of the ones pictured. Also, it doesn't appear to have the finer lines between the lines of latitude that the 1920 examples seem to all have, and lastly, the head of the eagle appears different to me. I am no expert on EGAs and I don't collect them directly but I do collect Marine uniforms and these early EGAs continuously have me confused. I feel like I've seen many different examples of a "model 1920" and don't really understand how to identify any of these 1920's era devices well. Were there a plethora of manufacturers making what was supposed to be a single design that was corrupted or altered by each? Any insight into this would be greatly appreciated as I've really been confused about this topic for a while. Thanks.

 

Semper Fi,

-Will

[MurfreesboroMemphis]

rear

[b_hinch]

That is absolutely a correct M1920-1930 model EGA, as issued. I believe the other EGA you were referring to would be the Meyer style (pictured here) that would have been a private purchase, but also correct for the period. Any input from other members would be appreciated.

[MurfreesboroMemphis]

Thanks for the info. You are correct. That is the style I was referring to. So the EGA I posted would have been an issued item and the Meyer ones above were private purchase only? Am I also correct in that there was at least on other design used during that time, the Gaunt EGA? Thanks for the help. I'm just trying to get this all nailed down in my head.

 

Semper Fi,

-Will

[Haditha07USMCR]

Thanks for asking this Will, you are not alone in your confusion. Thanks for the clarification guys and keep it coming. I need all the help I can get.

 

Semper Fi

 

-Josh

[teufelhunde.ret]

The five most commonly seen collar emblems for 20s enlisted dress blues are (top to bottom)

• issue variety
• made in England
• Meyer made
• "clipped wings" type
• and H&H made

[Haditha07USMCR]

The five most commonly seen collar emblems for 20s enlisted dress blues are (top to bottom)

• issue variety
• made in England
• Meyer made
• "clipped wings" type
• and H&H made

1920s enlisted dress.jpg

 

Sir,

 

Thank you! This is basically what me and Will (MurfreesboroMemphis) have been looking for. We are both 0331's and need things broken down to a very simple form.

 

Semper Fi

 

-Josh

[MurfreesboroMemphis]

Wow, thanks. Josh is right. That clears a lot up for me. Now for a follow up question, did the 1926 model take the place of all five versions of these or were some of them produced and worn well into the 30's? Thanks again for the help. I think it would have taken us a decade to figure this out on our own.

 

Semper Fi,

-Will

[teufelhunde.ret]

The M26 (really the 1930 period gooney for enlisted, was the replacement for those above private purchase and issue emblems) did not see the light of day until approval for issue 1930 or soon after, as QM stocks were used up, maybe 1931 before they saw use. In any case, those pictured above continued to be used throughout a Marines career unless they became unserviceable and or he choose to replace them. Very common to see Marines wearing their original issue emblems 20-30 yrs later, both Officer and Enlisted. Just how it was back then...

[Bob Hudson]

Keep in mind that some of the designations such as "M 1920" are the product of collectors seeking a way to keep track of what were sometimes broad changes in EGA specifications and design. For the most part, I don't think this forum has ever seen any actual Marine Corps specifications for EGAs nor any clear dates regarding when a certain type of pattern started being used or became "obsolete." We do know that there are photos of Marines wearing certain pattern EGAs before their supposed introduction date. Forum member usmacaviator has a treasure trove of early 20th century large, dated photos of Marines in uniform and they provide some valuable insights into EGA timelines. For several years now those photos have been planned for use in a new book about EGAs - first by another author and most recently by usmcaviator.

 

That book could clear up many but not all of the mysteries about EGA's, and frankly the mysteries are in part what makes old EGA's so collectible. Besides the timeline questions, you also have the different manufacturers interpretations of various patterns. After the so-called M 1937 pattern came out there was a standardization of EGA designs and by the time the "modern" pattern was introduced in the late 1950's the designs became quite cookie cutter in nature. But, with the pre-WWII EGA's there was a lot of artistic license.

[teufelhunde.ret]

Very specific and detailed specifications were provided by the Marine Corps with each uniform revision and updates, as to the materials used, details of, dimensional sizes, and of emblem embellishments. It was left to the makers to determine the appearance, based on these written outlines. In 1936 the "standard design" was adopted, yet makers produced an unprecedented and prolific number of patterns.

 

Therefore the use of "M" or "P" refers to the date the reg was promulgated and adapted by collectors in all arenas of collecting.

 

You will see all these references and much more in a EGA book written by another forum member, currently in the hands of Bender Publishing, to be released next spring. It will have 300+ pages, 2000+ emblems / periods pics with an index covering 50+ pages

[MurfreesboroMemphis]

Wow, I can't wait. That should be extremely helpful. Ya'll have really helped me nail down a basic understanding thus far. Thanks again.

 

Semper Fi,

-Will

[MurfreesboroMemphis]

To add to my initial question, the 37 pattern was used exclusively up to the Korean War correct? At this time, a new design was implemented with fouled anchors for the collar insignia right? Please correct me If I am wrong in any of this. Then, the final change was made to the current style circa the late 1950's? Thanks again.

 

Semper Fi,

-Will

[teufelhunde.ret]

Correct, the M37 pattern was used up to the time the new Seal for the Marine Corps (1956) was approved and the fouled anchor emblem, as used today, was adopted. The same "fouled anchor" Officer pattern (as used today) was adopted for use by the uniform regs in 1962.

[Haditha07USMCR]

Building off of Will's question, is there anyway to differentiate between early M37 and later models. Is it done via the rollers on the back's of the EGA's? Thank you all for help. It is much appreciated.

 

-Josh

[MarDiv]

Excellent thread!!!!!!

[Bob Hudson]

Building off of Will's question, is there anyway to differentiate between early M37 and later models. Is it done via the rollers on the back's of the EGA's? Thank you all for help. It is much appreciated.

 

-Josh

 

The model that came along in the mid 1950's has a dot on the upper anchor fluke. Rollers are a removable part so a WWII flower roller can end up on a late 1950's EGA.

 

[Haditha07USMCR]

 

The model that came along in the mid 1950's has a dot on the upper anchor fluke. Rollers are a removable part so a WWII flower roller can end up on a late 1950's EGA.

 

 

Sir,

 

Just to clarify, is the small dot found on the early fouled anchor EGA's (post M37 EGA/ Modern EGA), or does this also apply to late model M37's before the transition? Hope that makes sense. Thank you.

 

-Josh

[MurfreesboroMemphis]

Mr. Hudson,

I had the same question as Josh. I've seen the emblem you posted above on Korean War era uniforms. Is this incorrect or was this emblem still considered a model 37 but was now 'fouled' for collar emblems? I guess I'm confused because I recognize the 37 model and the ones I currently have on my personal Blues, but I feel like the EGA you posted is unlike either of those. I hope I'm not muddying the waters. Just a little confused.

 

Semper Fi,

-Will

[Bob Hudson]

 

Sir,

 

Just to clarify, is the small dot found on the early fouled anchor EGA's (post M37 EGA/ Modern EGA), or does this also apply to late model M37's before the transition? Hope that makes sense. Thank you.

 

-Josh

 

Only on the post M37 EGA's, which includes current models. The "modern EGAs" have been around for almost 60 years now. I just bought a trunk that belonged to a Marine who retired in 1959. It had a few dozen EGA's all of which were the WWII versions with flower rollers or the early 1950's clutchback versions (they were worn on a khaki shirt collar). So, even though there had been a change in 1955, he still wore the old style, and that seems to have been common.

[Haditha07USMCR]

 

Only on the post M37 EGA's, which includes current models. The "modern EGAs" have been around for almost 60 years now. I just bought a trunk that belonged to a Marine who retired in 1959. It had a few dozen EGA's all of which were the WWII versions with flower rollers or the early 1950's clutchback versions (they were worn on a khaki shirt collar). So, even though there had been a change in 1955, he still wore the old style, and that seems to have been common.

 

That makes perfect sense. Thank you. So to continue with my confusion a little more, are the flower rollers found on M37 EGA's dated to the WWII period and the more modern rollers from the post-war period? Thank you.

 

-Josh

[Bob Hudson]

Mr. Hudson,

I had the same question as Josh. I've seen the emblem you posted above on Korean War era uniforms. Is this incorrect or was this emblem still considered a model 37 but was now 'fouled' for collar emblems? I guess I'm confused because I recognize the 37 model and the ones I currently have on my personal Blues, but I feel like the EGA you posted is unlike either of those. I hope I'm not muddying the waters. Just a little confused.

 

Semper Fi,

-Will

 

I think that photo is a dress cover EGA.

 

I see lots of Korean War era uniforms that have the later insignia on them because the Marine continued to wear the uniform long after the war, but during the Korean War there were no EGAs with the dot on the fluke. EGAs worn during the Korean War looked like these (part of the batch that came in the trunk buy last week):

 

[Bob Hudson]

 

That makes perfect sense. Thank you. So to continue with my confusion a little more, are the flower rollers found on M37 EGA's dated to the WWII period and the more modern rollers from the post-war period? Thank you.

 

-Josh

 

I'd always thought that soon after WWII they went back to the brass rollers, but I haven't seen any confirmation of that. For those who don't know about flower rollers: they were zinc rollers used during WWII when brass was needed for more important things, such as ammo. Here are two types, the one on the right being the most common:

 

[teufelhunde.ret]

There ARE NO DOTS on anchors (these are Beckett) I will post a pic group covering mis-information, correct terms and roller era uses in the morning.

[Brig]

Thanks for the info. You are correct. That is the style I was referring to. So the EGA I posted would have been an issued item and the Meyer ones above were private purchase only? Am I also correct in that there was at least on other design used during that time, the Gaunt EGA? Thanks for the help. I'm just trying to get this all nailed down in my head.

 

Semper Fi,

-Will

 

A lot of collectors feel that the Meyers model was also a private purchase alternative to the issued but unpopular Goonie Bird Droop Winged M-26, commonly seen on uniforms of Marines in the 30s...

 

You see a lot of 1920-22 dated uniforms being used by Marines in the 30s...it seems quite a large supply was made in that time period and it took quite a while to get through the stocks