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Sleeper on eBay?


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#1 WorldWarPatches

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 07:25 AM

Anyone ever seen this?

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/...984.m1423.l2649

 

 



#2 Dave

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 07:38 AM

And from the auction...

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  • moropatch.jpg


#3 WorldWarPatches

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 07:50 AM

How U do dat? (*_*)

So what do U think about dat patch?



#4 firefighter

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 08:43 AM

How U do dat? (*_*)

So what do U think about dat patch?

 

 

Copy & Paste



#5 PATCHRAT

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 09:40 AM

I suspect  there are some who know the patch and are waiting for the last second to bid.  It a nice patch one sold for about $125 a while back.



#6 atb

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 10:04 AM

Post-WW2 for the reactivated 44th Inf (PS). Same thing with the fairly common screw-back DUI. The 12th Infantry Division (PS) was reactivated on Okinawa for a short period of time after WW2 and I believe both the SSI (if it is a genuine item of wear) and the DUI were made for that iteration of the regiment.



#7 kiaiokalewa

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 10:49 AM

If you hadn't read "In the Philippines and Okinawa, a memoir 1945-1948, William S. Triplet" ISBN 0-8262-1335-9, you should. It is a very interesting account about Col Triplet and his involvement with the 44th IR PS.

Afterwards you'll know to stay away from this fully embroidered example. Col. Triplet goes into detail about the SSI, the material used and the debacle that occurred on Okinawa during a unit presentation inspection.

In short they were made of a local flannel material that had poor dye retention.

Don't spend big bucks for an after market made for the collector insigne.

Edited by kiaiokalewa, 24 June 2013 - 10:53 AM.


#8 vzemke

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 12:27 PM

Interesting that it's an "after market" patch, considering that its still quite uncommon and seldom seen (even if it may not be legit).  Maybe I haven't had my eyes open enough, but I've seen way more of the older made for collectors "Japanese War Crimes Trials" and "Nurenburg War Crimes Trials" patches for sale over the past 10 years.  

 

Anyone know when/where it was made?  Before someone shouts "Patch King", its worth pointing out that this is not a patch that to my knowledge has EVER been shown listed in any Patch King price lists, etc. 

 

In no way trying to "wish" it into being real, just curious if anyone knows how this little patch came to be.

 

Vance



#9 firefighter

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:04 PM

Found this on the forum.

 

av-697.jpg?_r=1193439451

Interesting "football" on ebay


#10 kiaiokalewa

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 05:40 PM

http://www.usmilitar...sting +football

Firefighter was trying to attached the link above. Read what the Col has to say about the patch he created and the procurement of these insignia. Although the first patch job was botched the follow up is most telling. One of his Lt. sourced locally a suitable substitute of cotton material.

It has to be remembered that the 44th was a very short lived in Okinawa. Something along the lines of just under a year. It is well documented that a DI was procured for the unit but never made it to the troops before it was disbanded. Now these were CONUS made distinctive insignia.

Read the facts, follow the timeline, and do the math. The fully embroidered 44th patch in discussion was never worn by its troops.

#11 kiaiokalewa

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 05:56 PM

To maybe answer Vance's question. There was once an Army officer that was stationed in Japan during the late 50's that had reproduced some of the rare SSI's know at that time. These were fully embroidered types. One that comes to mind is the 7th Port Command. He made his set and had several of each made for traders. This is like an early theater made attempt by a collector to fill in gaps for the collection. Just like all the SEA made patches purchased by the then big time collectors
(Greene, Smyth, Sparks,etc...) the original intent gets lost overtime. They were reproduced to fill in gaps. The origins of the fully embroidered 44th patch is unknown to me but I bet if you go back far enough in the older Trading Post (50's - 60's) you'll probably find the answer and the individual behind it.

#12 Teamski

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 05:58 PM

Gotta love this forum!!

 

-Ski



#13 vzemke

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 06:07 PM

Thanks for posting the link, very interesting discussion.

 

Vance



#14 WorldWarPatches

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 08:01 PM

Thanks kiaiokalewa

Great reading. I'm thinking the patch could have been the real deal, not a 1st run but a made for the unit patch. Seeing how the 1st ones were junk or cheaply made. 



#15 kiaiokalewa

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 09:08 PM

It is evident what was used after the first issued 44th "red flannel" patches.  Major Schneider came to the rescue and found a more suitable fabric (cotton) for future 44th patches.  Triplet's final sentence below states this fact clearly. 

 

 

Col Triplet explains the origin of the patch in his own words:

"I was quite dissatisfied with the prospect of wearing the carabao skull shoulder patch as prescribed for all Philippine Scout units. For this corporate regiment I wanted a distinctive insignia. It would be worse than useless to appeal to PGF or to the heraldry division of the adjutant general's office. It had been my experience that requesting permission to do anything unusual was generally futile. So it was up to me to devise insignia for the Fourth-fourth. After getting them sewn on 11,400 shirts the chances of staying there would be fairly good I hoped.

"But what insignia? A Moro kris, rampant, would antagonize all of the Christians and pagans. An Illocano shield would be a serious affront to the Igorots, and a Bontoc head ax would offend the Luzon lowlanders. No one group could be favored over another or we'd have trouble.

"Finally my doodlings jelled on a plain shield, shaped like the plan view of a canoe, three inches high and half as wide. This would be easy to cut uniformly, had never been used by the heraldry division, and bore no resemblance to any Filipino shield. The color -- red of course.

"So I asked Major Schneider to find, draw, beg or trade for a quantity of red cloth. It took some doing and several days. At the next officers school the cloth was distributed to the unit commanders with instructions for its use. Three mornings later the Forty-fourth stood Reveille as the Red Shield Regiment.

"They were simple but very eye-catching insignia, certainly distinctive, and had exactly the effect on the toops that I had hoped for. The men stood up all of their five and one-fourth feet tall, flaunted their shoulder patches at their carabao-skull branded brothers in arms, and swaggered a little.

"Several inspecting officers from PGF and AFWESPAC were startled into derogatory comments about unauthorized insignia in their reports. These I disregarded. General Hazlett, who was now the division commander, was quite pleased with the innovation and as I had hoped stoutly defended the wearing of the illegal red shield by his attached Scouts. Our pride ran high until the first shirts returned from the laundry. Major Schneider had only been able to pick up a small amount of cloth here, another type there, and a third batch of the required color somewhere else. In the laundering process the flannel patches had shrunk and puckered and the cotton shields had run in varying degrees, so that the sleeve and shoulder patch were both colored the same general shade of pink. An irreverent lieutenant suggested that the regiment be renamed the Mangas Coloradas, in honor of the red-sleeved Apache chief of that name.

"After that disaster the officers club fund came to the rescue and Schneider was able to buy a quantity of uniform, well tested, color-fast red cotton for future use, and with repeated launderings our left shirt sleeves faded to the standard khaki again."

-- William S. Triplett, In The Philippines and Okinawa, pp 151-152 (University of Missouri Press, Columbia MO, 2001)


Edited by kiaiokalewa, 24 June 2013 - 09:13 PM.


#16 kiaiokalewa

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 11:32 AM

Three bids and a $157+ later this auction had closed. Bill Wise must be happy with the sale. I wonder if someone out there could post what a original first or second theater made type looks like. The first type (flannel) does or should be 3 different variations of either flannel material or dyed flannel as Col Triplet relates. The second type (cotton) probably was cut and folded along the edge then sewn in place to prevent fraying during use and laundering.

Edited by kiaiokalewa, 26 June 2013 - 11:33 AM.


#17 vintageproductions

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 05:02 PM

Thought I would bring this back up. I bought a large Philippine patch collection awhile back and am just now getting to sort it. The patches in the group are from WWII through the 80's.

In the collection I found this one:

pi.jpg

Classic older style Philippine made.

So did the Filippino Army continue to wear this after the US left, or is this one made during WWII - Occupation period?



#18 Patchcollector

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 10:52 AM

Another of these patches is on eBay now:

 

http://www.ebay.com/...tIAAOSwIgNXpONz

 

 

Seller description:

 

Offered is an original WWII period US Army 44th Infantry Regiment (Philippine Scouts) shoulder patch as shown.  Tapes to approximately 2 5/8 inches long.  Does not glow under a blacklight.  One of three that surfaced in San Antonio, TX many years ago.

 

From what I've read in this thread I believe that the cotton examples like the one in the link I posted are post war made.Is that correct?



#19 Patchcollector

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 11:31 AM

Here for reference are the images of the patch that I linked to:

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  • POSTWAR44THFRONT.jpg


#20 Patchcollector

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 11:33 AM

Back view:

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  • POSTWAR44THBACK.jpg



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