1980s gear questions

[Fender Rhodes]

Leigh,

Great story. Sounds like the two sergeant's major went to the same leadership school!

 

Sounds like you'll have enough good material for your book. I wish you the best of luck on it!

Best,

FR

[msgt norway]

thank you Fender Rhodes and rakkasan187 for sharing your stories

from the time in the USMC!

 

it is very interesting to read what you marines have seen and lived.

 

my conection to the USMC are theyre regular arctic trainings back in 1980s to end 1999

and now they are back for training every 2nd year.

being around since i was a yung kid back in the start of the 80s trading for mres and camies

just trigged my collection of gear and the Marine Corps.

 

i made many friends in the marines since some was regulars on every exersice

sorry to say that most of these have passed away during conflicts around the world

in theyre service for the Marine Corps and USA.

so the USMC will always be a part of me, even i havent done service in the USA

but feel proud to have known these men that showed me respect and learned

me a lot about theyre way off living in the Corps.

 

so Semper Fi from Norway

 

ken.

[Rakkasan187]

Ken,

 

Thank you for your continued displays and interests in US military topics, and to your country for being one of our "Arctic Allies"..

 

Just for information Fender Rhodes is the Marine in these posts, and I was a US Army Infantryman, but F/R and I shared some of the same dirt and circumstances in our deployments. My Arctic training came from duty at Fort Greely, Alaska.

 

Leigh

[msgt norway]

Rakkasan187

 

Sorry i didnt see that,but i have to say the Us Army is also one of my favs in my collection

and have always looked up to the service they do for theyre people and peace

 

as you al can see in my live history photos posts i have done

i think it shouldnt be any dobt in what i like and collect

 

i honor al the members in the US Armed Forces!

 

best wishes from ken in norway

[Fender Rhodes]

Thanks guys.

 

Ken, I made three deployments to your beautiful country, 1996, 1998, and 1999. The terrain was challenging, the exercises were not always fun, but the people were and are fantastic.

S/F

FR

[fallout]

Was the cfp-90 pack introduced in 1988 with the lbv-88 or was it later?

[msgt norway]

there is a cfp-90 pack topic here that will lett you know a lot of details.

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/103197-cfp-90-ruck-sack/

 

 

cheers ken,norway

[Fender Rhodes]

CFP-90 packs were only issued to us from the CIF for cold weather missions. Once we returned from Norway we were required to turn them in. The CFP-90 was roundly hated, espcially the internal frame system. The moldable frame bars in the back of the pack would fall out of the fabric retainers and were often lost to the detriment and cost of the Marine it was issued to. I solved the problem by drilling a hole through the bottom of the aluminum bars and then ran 550 cord through the holes and through holes I punched in the fabric retainers. This kept the bars from falling out.

 

This was around 1996, but the Marine Corps at the time, got everything issued to us later than the Army.

 

Ken, that's it. What a gawd awful piece of junk that pack was. Whoever designed it, didn't spend one day carrying packs for a living.

[11b inf]

i was a (light) Infantrysoldier and had PCS'd to FT.Ord 7th (ID light) (1/27 wolf hounds) from Schofield Brks.25th (ID light) (1/21 Gimlets) late in 1991 after the first Gulf war...the 7th (ID light) always trialed new gear for the US Army Infantry, it was thier test bed Division...any way when i got thier and went to CIF we were issued those CFP-90 rucksacks new with the daypacks...we spent alot of time in the field thier at Ord and alot of deployments aswell so after awhile those packs got a real beating and found to be falling apart at the seams and suspension areas...we were told to return to CIF and turn in those CFP-90 rucks and re-draw our old large ALICE rucks and continue to use those...also before i got to the unit they had allready trialled those LBV-88 vest and found them to be crap/not good aswell and returned them to CIF and re-drew the ALICE LCE,but alot of guys kept and used thier LBV...i can only speak for light Infantry units and not non-Infantry units who may have kept that style of equipment longer than us...vince g. 11B INFANTRY

[Linedoggie]

CFP-90 packs were only issued to us from the CIF for cold weather missions. Once we returned from Norway we were required to turn them in. The CFP-90 was roundly hated, espcially the internal frame system. The moldable frame bars in the back of the pack would fall out of the fabric retainers and were often lost to the detriment and cost of the Marine it was issued to. I solved the problem by drilling a hole through the bottom of the aluminum bars and then ran 550 cord through the holes and through holes I punched in the fabric retainers. This kept the bars from falling out.

 

This was around 1996, but the Marine Corps at the time, got everything issued to us later than the Army.

 

Ken, that's it. What a gawd awful piece of junk that pack was. Whoever designed it, didn't spend one day carrying packs for a living.

I actually found the CFP-90 to be the first pack that was comfortable to wear without adding pads and taping straps, etc. I lucked out in that mine had good thread to sew it instead of what apparently was cotton thread on others. I still use it for hunting and camping. The only thing I didn't like was its assault pack which I gave away.

 

 

We also had a Gore Tex Sleeping bag that had a Brown nylon bag similar to the mamba and with a woodland bivy cover and stuff sack. In Iceland it was a godsend since Hootches were out of the question.

 

 

My Company had been Issued LBV and went up to Drum to find out we were now forbidden to wear them until the Whole brigade had them. Now of course we didn't have the LC gear no more, Command would not listen(dress right dress) so cue a Light Infantry company wearing Miles Harnesses as suspenders and carrying Mags in the 4 pocket Bandoleers from the range, or stuffed in Pockets. I'm reminded of Goats procreating when I remember that FTX.

[fallout]

on the jungle boots did you have ripple soles, panama soles, or another type of soles? Also did the military use ripple soles ever and if so when, did they use that type in Vietnam?

[sgtpeter]

on the jungle boots did you have ripple soles, panama soles, or another type of soles? Also did the military use ripple soles ever and if so when, did they use that type in Vietnam?

 

My original 1969 dated jungle boots have Vibram soles. The green (and later black) jungle boots from the 80s and 90s had Panama soles although I don't know when they switched. The ripple soles were something you could find either on or off post as a modification to your boots. I can remember seeing the ripple soles as early as '87 but don't know when they become popular. Throughout the 80s the green uppers were common items. Some commands would only allow the wear of jungle boots with the ripstop (summer-weight) BDUs. If wearing the heavy-weight BDUs, you had to wear solid leather boots. At some point (mid to late 90s?) I remember the Army saying no more jungle boots but that might have started the tranisition to the black uppers. Of course desert boots today maintain several design features of the jungle boots to include nylon uppers and foot arch drain holes but fortunately not the spike protective sole.

[sgtpeter]

I can only echo what Leigh and F/R have said as for the packing list. The common sense approach to packing a ruck when it represented your lifeline was obviously very important. That's something I use even today when talking with Boy Scouts about what and how to pack - the most important stuff at the top and the least likely used at the bottom. If something gets strapped to the outside make sure it is secure so that it doesn't flop as you walk and won't get stripped by a tree or brush.

 

We also faced the same issues with the pistol belts - most of us kept them lower on the waist to be more comfortable when rucking or IMT. When 1SG or CSM came around they belts were hooked together and left separated when it was just the boys. I too took a more liberal approach with my troops to filter out as much BS as possible by higher-ups that forgot or didn't know what it was like to live in the dirt. I actually preferred the LC1 gear over the LBV for comfort although the layout of the LC1 was defined by SOP. Once we got MOLLE gear, that was the best setup - everyone could customize to their liking. One aspect of the MOLLE gear I was not not in favor of was attaching directly to the IBA/IOTV. My opinion was that the gear should be worn on the vest so that you can strip it down as needed. The concern I had was the difficulty of extracting from a vehicle with all the pouches attached directly to the IBA. And the first step after an engagement is to Consolidate and Reorganize which means that big guns get put into action first. If your SAW or 203 gunner had his stuff strapped to his IBA, then it was harder to take his ammo if he become a casualty. Unfortunately it was "cool" to have gear strapped to the IBA and I found myself constantly battling what I considered the right way to do business.

 

I suppose everyone has their favorite sh*tbag CSM story. Mine was in SE Baghdad 2004. The FOB we used as a QRF base got a new CSM who had spent the previous umpteen years at the FA school house. He insisted that the FOB behave as if it was a CONUS garrison and wanted stuff STRAC including headgear. Since our BN wasn't stationed on the FOB we were guests and this guy would wait outside our billets for us to roll up. For the most part I just tried to let it roll of knowing this guy was really a pogue looking to get his ticket punched. Late July we rolled out in the morning to cordon an IED blast that was particularly effective. After more than 6 hours in the 130 degree heat, EOD finally cleared the site and we hustled back before the defac closed. Our favorite CSM was waiting for us and as guys dismounted from their BFVs a couple didn't put a hat on their nogin. The CSM decided to pick on an E4 and his SL jumped in. One of my guys told me what was happening so I stormed in the direction ready to lay it all out. Don't know if the CSM saw me coming or just decided he had enough play time but he left before I could get fully engaged. I passed the info to my 1SG and CSM but don't know if they ever talked to the guy. About three weeks later the CSM's boss was in a convoy which had an 1114 that broke down and they requested QRF for security. As my BFV section rolled up they started taking small arms and RPG fire. I don't care who you are 6-8 dismounts vs 2 BFVs is not a fair fight. Unfortunately the convoy left without a good bye, but the CSM did seem to give us a little less hassle after that.

 

Peter

[Fender Rhodes]

on the jungle boots did you have ripple soles, panama soles, or another type of soles? Also did the military use ripple soles ever and if so when, did they use that type in Vietnam?

 

My issue jungle boots have all been post-VN dated with Panama soles.

[Sgt_Rock_EasyCo]

When I was in the 82nd A/B we would rarely take sleeping bags to the field with us due to the sheer weight. Most of us went out and purchased a Large Rucksack so that everything we needed would fit inside, keeping the standard size rucksack for inspections.

 

Sleeping gear for me consisted of the ERDL lightweight poncho with ERDL poncho liner. Tie the liner to the poncho during cool weather and wrap up in it to keep warm. During the Summer you use the poncho as a "hooch" to keep the sun off of you and use the liner as a bed. When in the tropics I kept these two items rolled up and in my trouser pocket. If you use them alot, they get worn in enough to roll into a six inch wide by about 6 inch round item that is easy to stow, yet very effective at trapping in warmth. The only time we brought sleeping bags with us was when we went to the desert (freezing at night) or to winter training where a ponch/liner would be wholly inadequate.

 

When attached to the Berlin Brigade, as long as the weather was moderate I continued to use my poncho/liner sleeping system, even using it in the snow on occasion. Of course in the depth of winter it is necessary to use all of the cold weather gear the Army has to offer or you simply will freeze.

 

Rock

[Rakkasan187]

When I was in the 82nd A/B we would rarely take sleeping bags to the field with us due to the sheer weight. Most of us went out and purchased a Large Rucksack so that everything we needed would fit inside, keeping the standard size rucksack for inspections.

 

Sleeping gear for me consisted of the ERDL lightweight poncho with ERDL poncho liner. Tie the liner to the poncho during cool weather and wrap up in it to keep warm. During the Summer you use the poncho as a "hooch" to keep the sun off of you and use the liner as a bed. When in the tropics I kept these two items rolled up and in my trouser pocket. If you use them alot, they get worn in enough to roll into a six inch wide by about 6 inch round item that is easy to stow, yet very effective at trapping in warmth. The only time we brought sleeping bags with us was when we went to the desert (freezing at night) or to winter training where a ponch/liner would be wholly inadequate.

 

When attached to the Berlin Brigade, as long as the weather was moderate I continued to use my poncho/liner sleeping system, even using it in the snow on occasion. Of course in the depth of winter it is necessary to use all of the cold weather gear the Army has to offer or you simply will freeze.

 

Rock

 

 

I will quote what Rock has said about the winters in Berlin. Very cold and we did have moderate snowfall at times. When we stayed in Doughboy City, it was very cold. We were in solid concrete buildings that were all open, in all directions, North South East and West. The only way to stay somewhat warm was to block the windows with boards or pallets. Sleeping bags were usually used in this environment, but as mentioned before, these were loaded onto the supply truck and brought to the field, we did not have to carry them tied to our rucks.

 

Leigh

[fallout]

Does anyone have any pictures of there lbe, lbv, or allice pack and contents that they could post here? Also do you have any pictures of you when you were in the military in the late 70s to early 90s?

[fallout]

Also when was the LBV phased out, was it in desert storm?

[d6t]

Also when was the LBV phased out, was it in desert storm?

 

When I joined the Guard in 1994, we still had ALICE LBEs. I did not see the LBV until perhaps 1997 or 98. Then the ELBV just a year or two later.

[Sgt_Rock_EasyCo]

Does anyone have any pictures of there lbe, lbv, or allice pack and contents that they could post here? Also do you have any pictures of you when you were in the military in the late 70s to early 90s?

 

 

LBE's were easy.

 

82nd Airborne 70's and 80's

One Y Strap

One Vietnam Era, 70's Pistol Belt

Two to four 20 and or 30 round Mag pouches

Two canteens

One first aid pouch

One knife, usually KBar or Air Force Survival Knife

 

One Protective Mask

One Large Rucksack

 

Rock

[fallout]

Anyone have any pictures?

[msgt norway]

 

 

cheers ken

[BEAST]

Anyone have any pictures?

 

 

Here is a photo of my platoon taken in '88. You'll see a good mix of gear including what looks like an old M69 flak vest. Crewmen are qearing the M-25 pro-mask, dismounts are wearing th M-17A1. I don't think any of us had the M17A2, but I could be wrong. If I have any other photos with better details of the equipment, I'll post them.

 

[fallout]

Thanks, good pictures!

[msgt norway]

just a question fallout:

 

are you putting together a display or are you going to do a live history photo shoot

base on the information you collect?

 

just curious since i do this my self and wanted to see the result

 

cheersken,norway