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1980s gear questions

Started by knd643 , Jun 13 2013 07:08 PM

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#1 knd643

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 07:08 PM

Hi. This is a question my friend was asking. He would post it on here himself but for some reason he cant make a account and neither can I for him, it keeps saying the challenge question was incorrect but its right(we have tried so many times and it just wont work) any help with that would be great. On with the question though. He was wondering what year did PASGT vests started being issued, how often did they carry bayonets, did they carry the poncho with poncho liner or just the sleeping bag or both, did they always carry shelter halves and if they did were did they keep them, and how many :BDU's, underwear, undershirts, and socks did they carry, and did they carry towels and washcloths and if so how many?

Thanks. Also if anyone could help us out with him getting a account that would be great to. 



#2 RustyCanteen

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 07:40 PM

PM me with your friend's email address and preferred username and I will take care of it.

 

RC



#3 knd643

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 07:52 PM

PM me with your friend's email address and preferred username and I will take care of it.

 

RC

Ok. Thank you.



#4 RustyCanteen

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 08:04 PM

Ok. Thank you.

 

 

His account is accepted.



#5 fallout

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 08:30 PM

Yes thank you for your help, now the question is still the same.



#6 sgtpeter

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 09:25 PM

Regarding the PASGT vest, I don't know the official initial delivery of the vests, but like most new gear, it would have been issued to the top tier units such as Rapid Deployment Forces (RDF) first. The 82nd AB Division was/is of course an RDF force and I have seen a couple of photos of the vests used in Grenada (1983). Prior to the Afghanistan/Iraq campaigns, the use of body armor was typically optional except at various ranges (grenades, demo, trench clearing). I'm certain some units would have required their constant use, but not any I was assigned.

 

As for the issue and use of sleeping bags, poncho, shelter halfs - that was largely based on unit SOP. When I was stationed in Germany during the Cold War, our duffel bags with all our TA50 were strapped to our APCs most of the time. When we rolled out the gate for alerts, we had everything with us. I remember using a sleeping bag on all but the hotest of nights. In the light units, your packing list was much lighter as it all had to fit on your back. Most of the time that consisted of a poncho with liner, one set of BDUs, 5 t-shirts, 5 pair socks and a small towel. The only time I remember using a shelter half was in basic training.

 

When we had the M7 bayonet, I recall they were issued as part of the TA50. However the M9 bayonets developed a reputation as prone to breakage and were much more expensive than the M7. They also began issuing them from the arms room. Other than being issued for civil disturbence training and missions, I don't recall being issued M9 on a regular basis and they were not issued during our Iraq deployments.



#7 fallout

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 09:53 PM

Ok thanks, did you carry a alice pack and if so what did you carry in it if most of your gear is in your duffel bag?



#8 fallout

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 10:40 PM

Also did they use the cleaning kit that attached to the belt like in Vietnam or did they not use that, and how many soldiers had bipods for there m16, I think that someone told me it was 3 out of 10 had them but I don't know, also on bipods cases, in the 80s did they use a plastic one, I saw one that was plastic but I don't know if it was for a bipod. 



#9 hawkdriver

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 03:11 AM

The cleaning kits were issued, but NEVER carried on the gear as they were awkward and made way to much noise.  You kept them in your ruck if you carried them at all.  I've never seen a bipod issued, the only time I ever saw them was on the ranges for automatic fire, but as for being issued and carried in the field, I've never seen it.



#10 MattD

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 06:34 AM

Here is what I carried when I was in the 82nd "Airplane gang" in the 80s

 

Large Alice: with 1 x 2 qrt canteen and 1x folding E-tool clipped to outside. The 2 quart strap was extended and clipped to small "D" ring on 2 quart carrier around rucksack, through/behind the webbing of each "male" portion of the 3 x lower outside pockets snaps/closures on front. The strap was run through the inside of the plastic e-tool carrier flap (keep it from flapping around) and then behind the frame to be hooked to the other small "D" ring on the 2 quart. The strap was tightened up to keep the 2 quart and E-tool from bouncing around. Large Outside pockets: 2 x ponchos, wet weather gear ( Ltwt Gortex jacket or OD green plastic stuff) and poncho liner. Small outside pockets (above large center pocket): heat tabs, esbit stove , "bug juice"

Inside Rucksack (Inside 2 x wet weather bags): extra socks, extra t shirts, 1 pair of BDU pants, MREs, extra radio battery(s), weapons cleaning kit (inside radio pocket), helmet and air items (we always jumped in and walked out). Sleeping bag and warm boots/gear in the winter. M9 bayonet usually went into rucksack-didn't want to lose it.

We never carried/used the PASGT vest, except at the range.


Edited by MattD, 14 June 2013 - 06:36 AM.


#11 SKIPH

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 08:07 AM

Guys! Refresh my memory on the PASGT vest. We had a vest at that time that had the pistol belt attach around the bottom by nylon loops that snapped. It was very hot to war. Is that the one you're talking about? We just called them "combat vests". SKIP



#12 sgtpeter

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 08:19 AM

I agree with Hawk ... we were issued the cleaning kits but they stayed in the ruck until needed. The mech units were issued with the medium ALICE ruck but I ended up buying my own large ruck and used that. Besides the stuff already mentioned, usually the sleeping pad was strapped to the top of the ruck and the sleeping bag to the bottom. My e-tool was strapped to the outside. Inside also had shaving kit, couple extra MREs, raincoat and pants, wool sweater/field jacket/field jacket liner (depending how cold it was outside), wool hat and gloves and a book to read or maybe even a walkman :). Some guys in Germany had Graf parkas made which consisted of the coated nylon raincoat with a field jacket liner sewn inside. That was surprising quit warm. I never saw the bipods even though we had the M16A1s in basic but was only ever issued M16A2s, A4s and M4 in units.



#13 sgtpeter

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 08:21 AM

Guys! Refresh my memory on the PASGT vest. We had a vest at that time that had the pistol belt attach around the bottom by nylon loops that snapped. It was very hot to war. Is that the one you're talking about? We just called them "combat vests". SKIP

Hi Skip - they were asking about the flak jacket - the thin body armor issued prior to the IBA. I believe what you are talking about is the LBV - Load Bearing Vest - that held magazines in fixed locations on the vest and despised by all who had to wear it. The LBV was the precursor to the modern, modular MOLLE vest.

 

Peter



#14 Rakkasan187

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 08:23 AM

Guys! Refresh my memory on the PASGT vest. We had a vest at that time that had the pistol belt attach around the bottom by nylon loops that snapped. It was very hot to war. Is that the one you're talking about? We just called them "combat vests". SKIP

 

 

The PASGT which is being referred to is the Personnel Armor System for Ground Troops, aka flak vest. The vest I think you are thinking about is the LBV or Load Bearing Vest which replaced the LC-2 Harness and Suspenders. The LBV did attach by velcro and snaps to a pistol belt.

 

Leigh



#15 SKIPH

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 09:06 AM

Thanks Guys!  No, I didn't have the PASGT.  The only flak vsts I ever wore, or saw was the Vietnam era, THX for keeping me straight. May have a picture. SKIP



#16 Renegade

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 10:53 AM

HI knd463! I will try to give my 2 cents on this- I served  in the early 80's (81-84) with 1/509th in italy and 2/505 82nd airborne, as a grunt. In italy we still had the vietnam era flak vest being used and wore them quite often for guard duty (the red brigade terrorist scare was going on at the time) The first time i had a chance to use the PASGT vest was when we deployed to grenada in october of 83. The SOP was that all Ta-50 was to be deployed with you and was mission specific as to what went in the ruck and what went in the A bag ( if you were going to germany more cold weather gear went in the pack if you were going to Lebanon then that as rule ended up in the A bag )All the grunts were issued large alice packs and typically at least 3-4 pairs of socks were carried in the ruck, Poncho liners were always taken but i dont recall anyone using them as intended (attached to the poncho)- sleeping bags were carried typically only in the winter months and left in the A bag in warmer months of the year ( of course inspection times were different and SOP was followed) but once on the ground the loads were lightened and you carried only what you needed for the mission or FTX. Shelter halves technically were to be in the pack , but again that was SOP , I can only remember using them in basic training- if we needed sometype of shelter it typically was a poncho lean to type or if was extreme cold we would have squad tents , but in the field  mostly it was a fox hole or sleeping in the open on the ground. Cleaning kits were issued and kept in the ruck sack ( you also had the buttstock kit in your m16) , BDU's 1 extra set, towels and washcloth 1 set, Most everything was encouraged to be kept inside the rucksack- When parachuting of course you didnot want to snag on anything or lose it while jumping ( a few exceptions would be canteens and e-tools which needed to be tied down) and in the brush you did not want all kind of items hanging off your ruck to catch on brush and hold you up and stealth was a issue as well!  Bayonets I recall were kept in the arms room with the rifles and we were issued only on major excercises or deployments ( I think somebody thought they were to easy to lose).  I believe we did not have a standard procedure on where in the ruck things were to be kept, it was up to the soldier to decide, except for squad items like NVG's or radio batteries, etc. incase some one needed to get in your ruck for something they knew where to look.  Hope this helps a little.



#17 fallout

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 12:07 PM

Thank you very much for all the help!



#18 craig_pickrall

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 04:14 PM

Here are the spec sheets for two vests. Both were made standard in June, 1978.

 

BODY ARMOR - GROUND TROOPS - ICM - 1.jpg

BODY ARMOR - GROUND TROOPS - ICM - 2.jpg

 

 

BODY ARMOR - GROUND TROOPS - PASGT - 1.jpg

BODY ARMOR - GROUND TROOPS - PASGT - 2.jpg



#19 fallout

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 06:02 PM

Very interesting, so if I am not mistaken the second vest is PASGT as that is what it says under item name, so they had them in 1978 I did not know that. I thought it was introduced with the PASGT helmet so now I was wondering when the PASGT helmet was introduced, it looks like that is what he is wearing in the second one so 1978? Also what is the first vest, the only vest I was aware of was the m52, m55, m69, and PASGT. And one more question, how can you tell the difference they both look the same to me.



#20 craig_pickrall

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 08:20 PM

Here is the spec sheet for the helmet. It is also June, 1978.

 

HELMET, PASGT - 1.jpg

HELMET, PASGT - 2.jpg



#21 hawkdriver

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 02:03 AM

WOW, I'm glad someone had the forsight to re-think that cover, what a rag bag. 



#22 NS13Jarhead

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 03:34 PM

In the USMC it mostly depended on the mission or on the location/duration of the operation.  Always wore cartridge belt and H-harness with two 3-magazine pouches for M-16 (enlisted) or two 9mm ammo pouches and holster (officer), two 1 qt canteens (with NBC cap), 1st aid kit.  Sometime also had a butt pack in the center rear of the belt where I carried change of socks & skivvies and a deconstructed meal (C-Rat or MRE).  Most of the other stuff was carried in the ALICE pack.  But we kept 24 hours worth of essentials on the belt and attached it to the flak jacket in case we had to ditch the pack for some reason. 

  • PASGT vests started being issued - No idea, but the first one I wore was 1985 (I wore the plate armor ones from 1980-1985)
  • Bayonets - Always carried it on the cartridge belt, left side, ring forward. As an officer I carried a Ka-Bar in its place.
  • poncho with poncho liner or just the sleeping bag or both - Depends, most times it was poncho+liner.  For longer duration ops (1 month+) or a training hike, I'd take the sleeping bag.
  • shelter halves  - Used it in Boot Camp in 1980, Korea in 1982 and at The Basic School in 1988, other than that I usually slept under the stars or in GP-Medium.  If carried, it would be near the top of the ALICE pack to help act as waterproofing.
  • BDU's - Usually one spare set 
  • underwear - One or two extras
  • undershirts - One or two extras
  • socks - Two or three pair
  • towels and washcloths - Usually just a small brown/green cotton towel
  • Also always carried the E-Tool attached to the side of the ALICE pack.
  • And we always carried the M-17 gas mask in a leg carry on the left side.

Never saw or used an M-16 bipod, but the cleaning kit always fit nicely in the hatch in the buttstock of the rifle.


Edited by NS13Jarhead, 15 June 2013 - 03:50 PM.


#23 Linedoggie

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 05:02 PM

1980's? Well Ponchos usually on the back of the Pistol belt or if you had a Buttpack on or inside that. Poncho Liners if issued in the rucksack main pocket.`

 

PASGT vest? first I saw one was 1992 before that on Active duty and Guard we had M-69 Vests which wouldn't stop a .22

 

PASGT helmet? got one in 1988 finally before a parade

 

M7 bayonets? always from the arms room and not often issued due to idiots playing Rambo with them either cutting themselves or breaking the tips. Same for the M-9's (we did have them for Iraq but not enough for everyone. I watched a fist fight over a broken tip M7 the winner claiming it)

 

Sleeping bag, one set Polypro or cotton long johns rolled inside bag. 1 set BDU or Jungle fatigues insides WP bag with sleeping bag. Side pockets held socks shorts tshirts in ziplocks.

 

Shelter Half used once in 3 years on Active Duty, once again in Guard. Usually had a Poncho hootch or Hammock.

 

Shaving and washing gear, wash clothes, towels kept in garbage bag in main pocket.



#24 fallout

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 10:33 PM

  1. Thanks for all the help. I was wondering what a combat vehicle crewmen would wear in the 1980s? What  I was thinking was the coveralls, the helmet(I know its not the pasgt or m1 I have seen them at the military store but don't know what there called),boots(I already have), gloves(?), gas mask(not sure what kind), maybe a vest(I saw that there is a cvc vest but I don't know how common), and LBE(don't know if they wore them when inside the vehicle probably not). I know that it is probably different depending on what vehicle you are in and what roll like driver, gunner, ect. Thanks.


#25 BEAST

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 05:06 AM

 

  • Thanks for all the help. I was wondering what a combat vehicle crewmen would wear in the 1980s? What  I was thinking was the coveralls, the helmet(I know its not the pasgt or m1 I have seen them at the military store but don't know what there called),boots(I already have), gloves(?), gas mask(not sure what kind), maybe a vest(I saw that there is a cvc vest but I don't know how common), and LBE(don't know if they wore them when inside the vehicle probably not). I know that it is probably different depending on what vehicle you are in and what roll like driver, gunner, ect. Thanks.


Fallout,

When you write Combat Vehicle Crewman, do you mean an Infantry of Armor? Depending on your timeframe in the '80s, an Infantryman would wear BDUs or the Combat Vehicle Crewman clothing (fire resistant coverall and jacket). These coveralls are different than the cotton coveralls worn by mechanics. In the vehicle, the crewmen would wear a CVC helmet, outside they would wear a PASGT. I don't remember crews wearing flak vests inside the vehicle, only when they dismounted. Same with LBE as it gets caught on everything. Protective mask was either an M-17A1 or M-25. Gloves, the crewman gloves were good to work with as you still had some dexterity, but they were not very warm.

You would have to ask one of the tankers on the forum here. I believe they wore mostly the Combat Vehicle Crew uniform with tennis shoes hidden in their rubber boots. Tankers love comfort! (LOL)

Edited by BEAST, 17 June 2013 - 05:06 AM.



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