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EBAY Wasp wings


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#1 usaf70

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 01:27 PM

What are some opinions on the current Wasp Wings on EBAY?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/300915979500

 



#2 cutiger83

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 01:31 PM

I don't know about the wings but the name is wrong. There was a F.V. Archer in class 43-W-5 not F.V. Acher.

 

...Kat



#3 LuftStalg1

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 03:15 PM

I don't know about the wings but the name is wrong. There was a F.V. Archer in class 43-W-5 not F.V. Acher.

 

...Kat

Wow, he claims to be her son and spelled her maiden name wrong!



#4 costa

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 03:26 PM

wasp wings are super rear---- any one that shows up i would ask a hell of a lot of questions starting with the members here.



#5 LuftStalg1

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 03:34 PM

Wow, he claims to be her son and spelled her maiden name wrong!

 

I just looked and there is an F. Virginia (Acher) Williams of that class so it seems correct.

 

Mark D.



#6 Jack's Son

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 03:37 PM

I would not go near this auction. If real, this guy has a story for the polishing of the wing, and the replacement of the pins, which should not have happened. The engraving looks to be newer then the WWII era, and we cannot see the back of the WASP insignia to date those.



#7 Jack's Son

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 03:42 PM

These are my wings for comparison.

 

10.jpg

 

12.jpg



#8 Jack's Son

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 03:56 PM

The wings in question.....

image.jpg

#9 Jack's Son

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 04:05 PM

Back...

image.jpg

#10 US82Bravo

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 04:48 PM



 

I just looked and there is an F. Virginia (Acher) Williams of that class so it seems correct.

 

Mark D.

 

Indeed...

 

FVArcher.jpg

 

1912 -2003

 

Data from Ancestry.com

 

 

Larry



#11 pfrost

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 05:19 PM

I think maybe some of the other fellows can correct me if I am wrong (I'm looking at you, Russ), but I believe that this guy is actually legit and the wings are good.  The story I heard is that he went around and got a number of wings from the original WASPs.  He then (as he said) engraved their name and class on the back.  I wouldn't be so quick to discount this auction.

 

Patrick



#12 Jack's Son

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 05:33 PM

If this story is true Patrick, then these are not the origonal wings of the person named......what kind of deal is that??



#13 pfrost

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 06:35 PM

I wasn't clear.  He engraved the name and the class date of the person from whom he got the wings.  



#14 rustywings

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 12:53 AM

I think maybe some of the other fellows can correct me if I am wrong (I'm looking at you, Russ), but I believe that this guy is actually legit and the wings are good.  The story I heard is that he went around and got a number of wings from the original WASPs.  He then (as he said) engraved their name and class on the back.  I wouldn't be so quick to discount this auction.

 

Patrick

 

In the 1970's and 1980's, a gentleman by the name of 'George Connell' amassed a first rate WASP collection while pursuing his goal of obtaining at least one authentic wing from each graduating WASP class.  George then had a jeweler inscribe the name and class number of the individual WASP onto the back of each respective wing in his collection. 

 

The majority of George's collection is now in the hands of another advanced collector who's identity I will respect. I don't believe he's associated with the seller of this WASP wing being scrutinized.

 

With that said, I agree with Patrick and wouldn't be quick to dismiss this wing as fradulent.  Just keep in mind the badge being sold is not an original issued graduation wing for Class 43-W-5, but could be an authentic replacement wing which F.V. Acher purchased at a later date. 

 

Here's an image of a graduation wing for Class 43-W-5 copied from Jill Smith's fine book, 'Dressed For Duty, Volume Two.'        

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#15 rustywings

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 01:05 AM

I also agree with Jack's Son and would like to see a crisp image of the back of the illustrated WASP collar brass.  If the collar brass is indeed authentic, it would certainly add credence to the grouping.  If they're "museum quality reproductions" I would turn my back on the whole deal. 

 

Russ



#16 Jack's Son

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 06:42 AM

I should add to my reason for not liking this grouping. This wing may well have belonged to the WASP it is named for, and completely genuine. My problem is the the wing has been tampered with. New posts, polished, and engraved by someone other then the original owner. I no longer view the wings as original, but that's my feeling about collecting. If the insignia are WWII vintage, those alone would make the deal worth going after.

#17 CliffP

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 09:52 AM

My problem is that the wing has been tampered with.

 

New posts, polished, and engraved by someone other then the original owner.

 

I no longer view the wings as original, but that's my feeling about collecting.

 

If the insignia are WWII vintage, those alone would make the deal worth going after.

 

Overall, I've got to go along with Robin but would have no trouble with buying an old clutch-back wing that had to have one or both of the original posts replaced, provided the jeweler who made the repair did it the old fashion way by using a hand held soldering iron and silver solder, rather than using today's more modern electrolytic method or a laser. 

 

I also believe that the value of that particular wing listed on eBay was compromised when the jeweler used a buffing wheel to polish it.  That was a great big unforgivable NO! NO!

 

With regard to the seller having the original owners name engraved on the back of the badge:  That is a matter of choice that can only be determined by the buyer. I think the wing is a good one but believe the seller took a big risk by adding the original owners name to it.

 

Net, net, is the group really worth a minimum reserve price of $1700?  Who can really say with a clear explanation that would satisfy everyone who might be interested in buying it, but in consideration of the liberties that the seller took with the wing before he listing it, I personally don't think so.

 

Cliff


Edited by CliffP, 08 June 2013 - 10:03 AM.


#18 LuftStalg1

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 08:29 AM

In talking with the seller I confirmed he is the son and is mentioned in her obit.  He already sold the class wing but still has the uniform, modified by mom and used in her and husbands flying school post war. He is not worried about money and will frame it and pass it on to a relative if they do not sell.  All documents are being donated no matter if they are simply stored in the museum basement.  So in short according to him he has no feeling for "US" the collectors and is not in need of money.   To bad he did not have a child that wanted this stuff.    Heartbreaking for me to read.   More history scattered to the winds.

 

Mark D.



#19 Jack's Son

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 08:50 AM

Mark, this doesn't make sense to me. If money is NO concern, why not donate the auction items to a museum as well. There is more that is not being said, I believe. His arrogant attitude is not doing anyone any good, that's for sure, his mother's memory can be better served!!

#20 LuftStalg1

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 09:36 AM

Mark, this doesn't make sense to me. If money is NO concern, why not donate the auction items to a museum as well. There is more that is not being said, I believe. His arrogant attitude is not doing anyone any good, that's for sure, his mother's memory can be better served!!

I agree 110% Robin.   I gave up trying to figure out why people do some things, it will just make you crazy!

 

Edge pics of said wing.  Look good to me.

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  • WASP wing.JPG


#21 LuftStalg1

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 09:39 AM

Collar pins.

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#22 firefighter

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 12:33 PM

Mark, this doesn't make sense to me. If money is NO concern, why not donate the auction items to a museum as well. There is more that is not being said, I believe. His arrogant attitude is not doing anyone any good, that's for sure, his mother's memory can be better served!!

 

 

I too agree.So he takes it to a jeweler to have the pins fixed but he polishes the wings on his own? Doesn't need the money but has a pretty hefty reserve, $1700.I don't know, my Spidy senses are all over the place.



#23 LuftStalg1

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 03:40 PM

This latest reply from him, may shed some light.

 

Cut & paste:

 

"

The class wing was sold in 1983 (big bucks) to a collector named George W. Connell. I sold this wing and a few other insignificant items to George at my Mother's request (family issue with my brother). We also let him study her orders. George promised to identify my Mother's name in all photographs of the wing, especially those appearing in various publications. Suffice to say, that, over the years, that never happened and I was hopping mad and tried to get the wing back (at a huge premium). George has now passed away and only God knows what happened to his collection and that wing. Unfortunately, no-one in my family, including my kids, seem to have any interest in family history. My brother and I as well as my parents were military pilots. None in the later generation are. In any case I took great photographs of everything and created three huge three-ring binders - one for each brother. I doubt they have ever looked at them.

"

 

Mark D

 

P.S. I don't have one of these but is $1700 to high with the collar brass and other proof he is going to supply?  If so then anyone that has one they are will to sell for less just let me know!  ;)



#24 Jack's Son

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 04:14 PM

This latest reply from him, may shed some light.
 Mark D
 P.S. I don't have one of these but is $1700 to high with the collar brass and other proof he is going to supply?  If so then anyone that has one they are will to sell for less just let me know!  ;)


By themselves, the collar brass is not worth $1700. That being said, when will you see another pair? For a collector who doesn't care about what has been done to the wing, the deal may not be so bad, there is some redeeming value.

#25 LuftStalg1

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 04:51 PM

Well, he said he may lower the price so well see what happens.  $1700 is a bit to much for me!  And like most of you I would "bring it" had it been the class wing but not an altered Lozenge wing.  :(




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