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Marine Corps to change Female Marine Covers/Hats

Started by uplandmod , May 15 2013 09:35 AM

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#21 Bob Hudson

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 05:38 PM

By the way, you have to to love these name for these women Marine dress caps: "dress bucket."



#22 RustyCanteen

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 06:01 PM

I can't believe active duty females really want to be dressed like men. The male and female bodies ARE different after all, and military uniforms have always accommodated that difference. Why change this? To me, the Sgt Maj. in the link looks like a girl dressed up in men's clothes vice the proud SNCO that I'm sure she is....

 

Like I said in my earlier reply to this thread, I'll leave it to those it affects to debate it. However, isn't the purpose of a uniform to look the same? I don't see anything wrong with an attempt to equalize a uniform though.

 

Just my thoughts,

RC



#23 agate hunter

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 12:38 PM

The new SgtMaj at 8th and I is currently wearing male dress blues and a male cover.

http://www.barracks....eant-major.aspx

 

I believe her uniform does not have pockets (like WWII enlisted man dress blues).



#24 RustyCanteen

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 01:00 PM

Yeah I'm not seeing pockets either.

 

I don't really see an issue with trying to make the uniforms, well, more uniform though?

 

RC



#25 Bob Hudson

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 01:54 PM

From http://www.marinecor...icewide-changes

 

 

Common dress blues uniforms for Marines, regardless of gender, could be on the horizon pending results of a multimonth wear test underway at Marine Barracks Washington, D.C.

 

Women stationed there have been wearing men’s white dress covers since the start of this year’s parade season. A select few also are wearing a modified version of the male dress blues jacket featuring its distinctive mandarin-style collar trimmed with the Corps’ gold eagle, globe and anchor insignia.

 

The experiment began quietly this spring, an initiative led by the commandant, Gen. Jim Amos, and the barracks commander, Col. Christian Cabaniss, said Capt. Jack Norton, a spokesman there. After Aug. 31, the end of parade season, Cabaniss will solicit feedback from the women who tested out the new gear.

For now, only women will be surveyed, Norton said.

 

usmcblues2.jpg

 

usmcblues.jpg



#26 Bob Hudson

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 01:57 PM

A female Major:

 

usmcblues3.jpg



#27 Bob Hudson

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 05:47 AM

Turns out there's another spin on this. The full story is at http://nypost.com/20...ear-girly-hats/

 

The New York Post "credits" the President with this one, but for discussion purposes on the forum we can avoid pointing blame, and proably all agree that the bell crown hat is not ready for a comeback. Also note that the newspaper wrongly says that the male and female on the left are wearing the "old hat" when in fact the female is wearing the proposed new male-style hat for women.

 

danhat.jpg



#28 RustyCanteen

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 06:19 AM

 and proably all agree that the bell crown hat is not ready for a comeback.

 

For some reason the bell crown looked good 90 years ago, now no so much.



#29 cutiger83

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 06:27 AM

 

For some reason the bell crown looked good 90 years ago, now not so much.

 

 

It is funny how times and perceptions have changed. The bell crown cap was worn by the Marine Corps 90 years ago but today it is considered "girly".

 

These are proposed changes that may or may not happen. I remember a discussion on here not so long ago about how the beret was proposed for the Marine Corps and it was NOT received well and never passed the proposal phase.



#30 RustyCanteen

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 06:33 AM

 

It is funny how times and perceptions have changed. The bell crown cap was worn by the Marine Corps 90 years ago but today it is considered "girly".

 

True, at one time it was a pretty popular design for men in several professions. Firefighters actually used them for a long time, and I think still do for dress occasions.

 

I guess part of what I don't like is the combination of modern materials, which take away from the old style.

 

I am trying to figure out what makes them "girly"?



#31 cutiger83

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 06:41 AM

I am trying to figure out what makes them "girly"?

 

 

I think it is because the proposed cover looks like the current female cover therefore it is perceived as "girly". People only see current items and don't think about what things used to look like.

 

The same applies for the proposed female cover. It looks like the current male cover so people are saying it looks too "manly" for women. 

 

I would like to add that we are only discussing the proposed changes. We have no voice on the matter. I believe only the Marines currently serving can decide whether or not to adopt the proposed changes.



#32 RustyCanteen

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 06:43 AM

 

 

I think it is because the proposed cover looks like the current female cover therefore it is perceived as "girly". People only see current items and don't think about what things used to look like.

 

The same applies for the proposed female cover. It looks like the current male cover so people are saying it looks too "manly" for women. 

 

I would like to add that we are only discussing the proposed changes. We have no voice on the matter. I believe only the Marines currently serving can decide whether or not to adopt the proposed changes.

 

Good point, perception of association.

 

I agree, only they will decide if they like it or not.



#33 Bob Hudson

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 06:53 AM



 

I am trying to figure out what makes them "girly"?

 

Well it is more macho than the Army beret when it's worn in that Veronica Lake/Jessica Rabbit  over-the-eye peek-a-boo style:

 

 

beret.jpg



#34 Dirk

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 01:36 PM

Reading an article in the Daily Mail states the cover is going called the "Dan Daly"....although it, as pointed out above, is an attempt to reintroduce the Bell Crown.....the shape of this version looks more like a fire chiefs hat.

#35 Dave

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 01:52 PM

 

For some reason the bell crown looked good 90 years ago, now no so much.

 

Tricorns and chapteaus looked good at one time too...and things have changed. :D

 

What's sad is that the Marines have always had the best looking uniforms for both males and females. And now? To even consider this???  Whoa....



#36 Teamski

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 07:10 PM

I concur.  The bell cap does not do it anymore.  I really hope they reconsider.  I know just about every Marine will vote against it, that is for sure!!!

 

-Ski



#37 juvatwad

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 08:27 PM

 

I am trying to figure out what makes them "girly"?

 

It looks very feminine in the photo above. Maybe the rouge and lipstick on the guy wearing it contributes to that, though.

 

Ian



#38 cutiger83

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 10:48 AM

I read this today on yahoo. It explains the Uniform Board process a little more clearly than the New York Post. As was mentioned earlier, please keep politics out of this thread.

 

If you want to read the entire article, it can be found here:

 

http://shine.yahoo.c...A3BtaA--;_ylv=3

 

Here are excerpts:

 

Crank up the defibrillator: The New York Post is having a coronary over what it says is "Obama's plan" to sissify the United States Marines.

Hats aside, from the derisive tone and language, clearly someone doesn't think that either gays or women are tough enough to serve, not to mention the insult to the entire nation of France and our commander in chief, who has nothing to do with this decision. 

 

What the Post does get right is that the Uniform Board is currently seeking feedback from both active-duty members and reservists on whether or not to adopt a universal cover (that's a hat to us civilians). A Marines spokesperson told Yahoo Shine that the Corps periodically reviews uniforms and recommends changes. The options would be either a slightly modified version of the current male cover or a topper with a smaller crown — dubbed the "Dan Daly cap" after a World War I hero, Sgt Maj. Daniel Joseph Daly — which is more similar to the cover currently worn by women. Voting ends on Friday, and the Uniform Board will convene on Oct. 29 to consider the results.

 

The Marine Corps Times chimes in: "The movement to make female uniforms more similar to those worn by men comes as the Defense Department begins to open more roles in combat units to women."    

However, similar doesn't have to mean identical. When someone feels good and looks good, they will act accordingly."

 

What makes sense is letting the soldiers speak for themselves about whether or not to adopt a more unisex appearance — which is what the Uniform Board appears to be doing in the case of the hat options. This seems particularly important for the Marines, for whom appearance is deeply important. "Tradition is more than just a word to the Marine Corps. It's honestly what separates us from the other branches of military," a sergeant who preferred to remain anonymous told Yahoo Shine. "Tradition ties directly to appearance, how an individual Marine looks in or out of their uniforms." Another Marine, former staff sergeant Andre Cato, agreed, "It seems absurd to change the cover. As far as tradition goes, we go way back and it's a very big value." He added, "Females are perfectly happy with their uniform, as are males. It would be like trying to fix something that's not broken."

 

And in the unlikely event that the Uniform Board decides to change to a unisex hat? Let's recall Daly himself. His so-called girly hat didn't diminish his bravery or bluster one bit.



#39 juvatwad

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 01:33 PM

 

And in the unlikely event that the Uniform Board decides to change to a unisex hat? Let's recall Daly himself. His so-called girly hat didn't diminish his bravery or bluster one bit.

 

 

It's has nothing to do with bravery; it's about how stupid the hat looks.

 

Ian



#40 RustyCanteen

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 01:38 PM

It isn't up to us to decide, but I think it's clear that no matter which way they go someone isn't going to be happy.

 

Go to a classic cover that men wore (but make it so that women wear the same cover)? People say it's too girly.

 

Let women wear the current men's cover? Someone will say it's too manly.

 

So either way, doesn't it seem like there is a double standard?




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