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MOH ribbon positioning

Started by MMA10mm , May 15 2013 09:17 AM

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#21 firefighter

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 05:29 PM

Both generals probably bought their jackets on Ebay from some "put together artist."

 

 

LOL!!!!



#22 Garandomatic

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 06:27 PM

Any chance you fine fellas could name the couple recipients that are not named in the posts?

#23 emccomas

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 05:19 AM

5312. RIBBONS

 

1. Manner of Wearing. Ribbons are worn on the service coat or jumper of Dress Blue and Dress White, and on the shirt of Service Khaki, Summer White, Winter Blue, and Tropical White.   Ribbons are not authorized on formal dress, dinner dress, or working uniforms.   Wear up to three ribbons in a single row. When more than three ribbons are authorized, wear them in horizontal rows of three each.   If ribbons are not in multiples of three, the top row contains the lesser number, and the center of this row sits over the center of the one below it.   Wear ribbons without spaces between ribbons or rows of ribbons.   Wear ribbons with the lower edge of the bottom row centered 1/4 inch above the left breast pocket and parallel to the deck.   To prevent coat lapels from covering ribbons, ribbons may be aligned so the border to wearer's left is aligned with left side of pocket.   Rows of ribbons where more than 50% of the ribbon is covered by the coat lapel may contain two ribbons each and be aligned with left border.   On Full Dress uniforms, <see article 5313>.

 

From Navy Uniform Regulations..I would not be surprised that Army and Air Force regs are similar.



#24 firefighter

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 05:22 AM

Wouldn't mind having one of this e 1/2" MOH ribbons.Just not worth going to jail for.I don't know who the AF officer is but I like his picture.AF uniform with the Army MOH.Correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't he have switched to the AF style when it was finally issued?



#25 BigJohn#3RD

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 05:51 AM

Wouldn't mind having one of this e 1/2" MOH ribbons.Just not worth going to jail for.I don't know who the AF officer is but I like his picture.AF uniform with the Army MOH. Correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't he have switched to the AF style when it was finally issued?

No he could not change it as it was issued by the Army and not the Air Force. If you have ever looked at Marine personnel who were decorated by the Army with the Citation Star or DSC to include multiple awards, they have Oak Leaf Clusters and not Star do donate additional awards denoting awards in the WWI.
Contrary to some folks including CSMs regulations are guide lines and as far as the placement of the Medal Of Honor Ribbon, placing it by itself on a separate row is showing of respect to the award by the individual wearing the award. The Marine General wearing the award above the Navy Pilot Wings is differently different but I'm sure he had his reasons so I guess you who find it odd or unbecoming just have to live with it; as he received the award, is a general officer and therefore pretty much do what he wants when it comes to displaying the award. I have seen Medal of Honor Recipients wear just the MOH ribbon when everyone else is wearing all their awards and decorations and in a way I think it speaks volumes about the award itself.
Regards,
John

#26 digi-shots

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 06:09 AM

Not to hijack this thread, but I've wondered why sometimes you see 4 ribbons across, vs. 3 ribbons?

 

Here's a photo of William Donovan.  I've seen some pics of him with 4 ribbons across...

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  • photo, Donovan MOH.jpg

Edited by digi-shots, 17 May 2013 - 06:12 AM.


#27 digi-shots

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 06:13 AM

Sorry, here's a full pic...

 

 

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  • photo, Donovan, MOH, 2.jpg


#28 firefighter

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 06:26 AM

No he could not change it as it was issued by the Army and not the Air Force. If you have ever looked at Marine personnel who were decorated by the Army with the Citation Star or DSC to include multiple awards, they have Oak Leaf Clusters and not Star do donate additional awards denoting awards in the WWI.
Contrary to some folks including CSMs regulations are guide lines and as far as the placement of the Medal Of Honor Ribbon, placing it by itself on a separate row is showing of respect to the award by the individual wearing the award. The Marine General wearing the award above the Navy Pilot Wings is differently different but I'm sure he had his reasons so I guess you who find it odd or unbecoming just have to live with it; as he received the award, is a general officer and therefore pretty much do what he wants when it comes to displaying the award. I have seen Medal of Honor Recipients wear just the MOH ribbon when everyone else is wearing all their awards and decorations and in a way I think it speaks volumes about the award itself.
Regards,
John

 

 

 

But say the pilot was awarded the MOH durn the Korean War as an AF pilot.The AF didn't have it's own MOH then so he was awarded the Army MOH.I thought they could switch to the AF version when it was finally approved?



#29 1SG_1st_Cav

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 09:21 AM

If you had earned an MOH, how would you place your ribbons?  If I had earned an MOH, and I had stars on my epaulets, I would wear them whatever way I chose to.  Who is going to correct you?

You are beating a dead horse [probably literally as most of the guys in the pictures are deceased].  Who among you is going to dig them up and crucify them????? Danny



#30 TRR

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 09:51 AM

I don't think this conversation is looking to crucify anyone just because we are having a discussion about the different ways it was worn and if it was actually a regulation. No one has said they did anything wrong and all has been supported by pictures.



#31 Garth Thompson

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 10:29 AM

I think a MoH recipient can wear the ribbon in any fashion he chooses so long as it is in the first position of precedence. Who would have the nerve to correct them, only an idiot?



#32 emccomas

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 10:38 AM

This topic always seems to touch off the "who is going to correct them" debate.

 

It is a discussion about the regulations and the "correct" (according to the regulations) manner of wearing the ribbons and / or medals, including the MOH.  It is not about the individual recipients, or how they are wearing their decorations.

 

So here is a question...regulations say that you can either wear the large medals or the ribbons (for those decorations that have both), but not both the large medal and the ribbon representing the same decoration at the same time.

I think I got that right.

 

That makes sense when you think about decorations like Navy Cross, Good Conduct Medal, etc.  However, what about the Medal of Honor (on a neck suspension ribbon).  Both at the same time?  No ribbon if wearing the large medal?

Again, the questions are about what the regs say, not what recipients do.  I cannot find this specific issue addressed anywhere in the regs.



#33 Sal

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 01:16 PM

Some thoughts, although it's been some years since I was in uniform:

 

1. General Officers, generally may prescribe their uniform, which may account for the USMC GO placing his MOH ribbon above the wings. Just a thought. 

2. Regulations dictate the number of rows and the number of ribbons per row as well as the number of each of the rows based on the number of awards. 

3. It also prescribes how and when you may stagger the rack in order to keep from obscuring the ribbons under the lapel.

4.Yes, medal or ribbon but not both, at least for the Army. I believe it is also the same for the MOH as far as regulations, however the recipient may be wearing both for photos for various reasons, but I believe it is incorrect to wear both MOH ribbon and medal when in full dress uniform. As I understand it, it is allowable when in dress such as dress greens (Army), however it always takes precedence and is in the number one position. I may be entirely off the mark with so many changes since I left the service.



#34 emccomas

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 03:28 PM

OK, so I am poking around trying to find a photo of a MOH recipient in uniform and wearing ribbons.

 

I am specifically interested in a recipient that has a total of 5 or 8 (or possibly 11) total ribbons on the left side.

That "should" be (from bottom to top ) 3 ribbons, then 2 (from the 5 total) where the most significant is the MOH.

I would be surprised to see 3 rows of (bottom to top) 3 - 1 -1.

 

Also on a related note, DOD has requested that potential future multiple recipients of the MOH be awarded medals for each action, and not the V device on the MOH for a second award.

Somebody re-thought that idea.  Good!  Hope the legislation passes.


Edited by emccomas, 17 May 2013 - 03:29 PM.


#35 Captainofthe7th

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 04:12 PM

Some from our own forums, mostly 4starchris: http://www.usmilitar...s/page__st__120

 

 

post-387-1168824804.jpg

 

post-387-1168828038.jpg

 

post-387-1171074410.jpg

 

Rob



#36 firefighter

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 04:26 PM

Those are some nice pics and ribbon racks.I like the MC with the two MOH ribbons and whats the ribbon below the MOH on the Army generals uniform? Look's almost like a MC Brevet medal? But I think it's the Philippine Medal of Valor.Just goes to show a general & MOH recipient can wear his medals any way he wants, as it should be.



#37 emccomas

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 04:40 PM

That last one has to be Smedley Butler's uniform.  What a character, and an awesome Marine.  Semper Fi.



#38 Jack's Son

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 06:11 PM

Those are some nice pics and ribbon racks.I like the MC with the two MOH ribbons and whats the ribbon below the MOH on the Army generals uniform? Look's almost like a MC Brevet medal? But I think it's the Philippine Medal of Valor.Just goes to show a general & MOH recipient can wear his medals any way he wants, as it should be.

 

 

 

I guess it would take one recipient, to correct another. :)



#39 MMA10mm

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 09:53 PM

Any chance you fine fellas could name the couple recipients that are not named in the posts?

Sorry I didn't name most of them, but as you can see, there is a fair degree of heat being thrown out that in some way I must be criticisizing these honorable heroes. I didn't want to fan those flames by attaching names, as some here would presume I was calling those awardees out (which I am NOT).

If you wish to see more of these men and their stories, I recommend looking them up on this list and then googling for more details: http://en.wikipedia....onor_recipients

Edited by MMA10mm, 18 May 2013 - 10:09 PM.


#40 MMA10mm

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 10:16 PM

OK, so I am poking around trying to find a photo of a MOH recipient in uniform and wearing ribbons.
 
I am specifically interested in a recipient that has a total of 5 or 8 (or possibly 11) total ribbons on the left side.
That "should" be (from bottom to top ) 3 ribbons, then 2 (from the 5 total) where the most significant is the MOH.
I would be surprised to see 3 rows of (bottom to top) 3 - 1 -1.
 
Also on a related note, DOD has requested that potential future multiple recipients of the MOH be awarded medals for each action, and not the V device on the MOH for a second award.
Somebody re-thought that idea.  Good!  Hope the legislation passes.


I agree. In all the looking I've done, the unusual arrangement is always above a row of 2. (Of course, if there is a row of 3 below the MOH ribbon, it would be centered and in its own row anyway, right?) So, if there is a regulation about this, "MOH in its own row," a rack with 3 ribbons underneath could be following either the special reg., or it could be following the conventional system. BUT, if we found a 3-1-1, or the equivalent, THAT would tell us there IS a special regulation. Alas, I've not found that arrangement...


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