Interesting Ribbon Rack On 82nd Airborne Trooper

[seanmc1114]

I saw this picture on facebook https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150157315173976&set=a.492516358975.295272.121994218975&type=1&theater and had to do a double take.

 

This guy apparently didn't feel the Marine Corps was tough enough so he had to join the Army's 82nd Airborne Division.

[shrapneldude]

TRAITOR!!!

Haha. Just kidding. That's a bona fide warrior there.

[TRR]

I served with a lot of guys in the Infantry that were prior USMC. Most of them couldn't get back in the Marines, but the Army at the time would take anything with a pulse. Not bad on them, I guess the Marines are strict about reentry according to them. My curiosity is...infantry, leadership tabs, multiple tours overseas-not a SGT? Also the lack of achievement awards is interesting. Most of the Marines I knew went up the ranks pretty quick in the Infantry. I had a 1SG that was prior marine and had 15 years total when I met him.

[shrapneldude]

Looks like he had at least two deployments with the Marine Corps, and ALL of his awards at the time of this photo appear to be from his USMC. If he was an Infantry Marine, they have a notoriously high cutting scores for promotion and it's not inconceivable for a Marine to stick out an entire enlistment and leave as an E-4 (Corporal). Not sure which rank E4 or E5 is in the Army, but it looks like this was probably taken just after he graduated jump school and checked into 82nd. He wouldn't have made E-6 just by crossing over that quickly.

[seanmc1114]

Since he obviously earned the Navy/MC Presidential Unit Citation and Navy Unit Commendation with the MC, should these be worn with his personal ribbons as shown here or with his Army unit awards? I have seen soldiers wearing both the Navy PUC and Air Force Outstanding Unit Award among their Army unit awards.

 

Also, is there any provision in Army Regulations for converting the Navy/MC Combat Action Ribbon to a Combat Action Badge?

[TRR]

That would make sense. E5 is SGT in the Army. Not knowing much about USMC ribbons, I couldn't denote that from what I saw.

 

I do know that all awards earned by a service member transfer from each branch. This includes permanent unit awards and skills badges. Awards are not converted.

[Jack's Son]

Great discussion guys...I'm learning a bunch.

[J_Andrews]

Idle Speculation:

 

1. The photo looks like an OFFICIAL one, such as used for PROMOTION BOARDS. Maybe he was about to get promoted to SGT.

 

2. Maybe he was jump-qualified while in The Corps, but wanted more jumps and regular jump pay, so went to the Army.

 

3. He may be an E-4 at time of entry to the Army, either because he was out on the street long enough to lose a stripe or because the

Army wasn't offering in-the-door E-5 that month/quarter/year.

[J_Andrews]

Furthermore:

 

4. The photo have be for his OCS application packet.

[TRR]

Not a DA photo, most likely a unit done one. I just looked at the FB page and he was the Soldier of the Month, which explains the photo. This would have been hung up at the unit HQs. OCS requires a DA Photo. A DA Photo is only required for E7-E9 promotions as they are de-centralized boards and don't appear before a panel.

 

Definately a squared away Soldier, nothing looks out of place.

 

Another interesting note....No Army Service Ribbon?

[seanmc1114]

I do know that all awards earned by a service member transfer from each branch. This includes permanent unit awards and skills badges. Awards are not converted.

 

Another interesting note....No Army Service Ribbon?

Actually, I don't think that's entirely true. For the most part ribbons earned in one branch can be worn after transfer to another branch. However, there are some exceptions which offhand I can't seem to remember. I'm pretty sure, for instance, the Air Force does not allow the wearing of the Army Service Ribbon. His lack of the Army Service Ribbon is either just an oversight or he had less than four months in the Army when the photos was taken, which is hard to imagine, because other pursuant to AR 600-8-22, he is entitled to wear it.

 

Also, I'm still curious about his wear of the two Navy unit awards among his personal ribbons. I'm pretty sure the regulations state that these will be worn in accordance with the current service's regulations, which call for them to be worn over the right breast pocket, vs. the regulations of the service in which they were earned, which would be over the right breast pocket as shown.

 

Finally, what recent operation has rated the Marine Corps Expeditionary Medal? The most recent one I can find is the USS Cole Operations (Determined Response): October 12 2000 to December 15, 2002. If that's when he earned that one, he most likely took an extended break between his MC and Army service which may explain his only being an E-4.

[atb]

Yes, I also believe the Navy unit awards should have been moved over and worn in the same manner as the Army unit awards.

[TRR]

You got me digging out my regs now, lol.

 

You are correct about the ribbons, I was referring more to the medals and badges. Another example would be the Navy marksmandhip ribbon, does not carry over.

AR 600-8-22

5–2. Service medals and ribbons awarded by other U.S. Services

Service medals and ribbons awarded by other U.S. Services may be worn on the Army uniform except the Air Force

Longevity Service Award Ribbon and Air Force and Navy Marksmanship ribbons. Service and training ribbons

awarded by other U.S. Services will be worn after U.S. Army service and training ribbons and before foreign awards.

 

I was not able to find a definitive statement saying other branch unit awards could not be in the ribbon rack, but it also didn't say it could. Being they list them all together, I would agree they should be worn together with his current unit awards above the right breast pocket.

 

AR 670-1

29-6b.

U.S. unit awards. A unit award is given to an operating unit and is worn by members of that unit who participated

in the cited action. Personnel who did not participate in the cited action, but who are assigned in the cited unit, are

authorized temporary wear of some unit awards. U. S. unit awards authorized for wear on Army uniforms are listed

below in their order of precedence.

(1) Presidential Unit Citation (Army, Air Force).

(2) Presidential Unit Citation (Navy).

(3) Joint Meritorious Unit Award.

(4) Valorous Unit Award.

(5) Meritorious Unit Commendation (Army).

(6) Navy Unit Commendation.

(7) Air Force Outstanding Unit Award.

(8) Coast Guard Unit Commendation.

(9) Army Superior Unit Award.

(10) Meritorious Unit Commendation (Navy).

(11) Navy “E” Ribbon.

(12) Air Force Organizational Excellence Award.

(13) Coast Guard Meritorious Unit Commendation.

 

 

He most certainly should have had an ASR, despite when he switched over he would have at least had to complete an Army introduction course. If he had been out long enough, he would have had to complete the second phase of Infantry OSUT before being assigned.

[MMA10mm]

If I remember correctly, the CIB is not authorized on naval uniforms. Rather, it is converted to a Combat Action Ribbon (CAR). Interestingly, I believe the reverse is NOT allowed -- If one was prior naval service and was awarded the CAR, it may NOT be converted to a CIB, thus you must continue to wear the CAR...

[Salvage Sailor]

Other that the obvious way to find out how he earned some of these awards, (which is to respectfully ask him), here's a clue you ribbon detectives have not yet explored.

 

As Shrapneldude noticed, the last ribbon on this rack is the Sea Service Deployment Ribbon (2 awards). He could either have been a seagoing Marine, assigned to the FMF, etc.

 

Eligibility Requirements

 

(1) General. Awarded to officer and enlisted personnel of the United States Navy and Marine Corps. Each service has distinct criteria that delineates eligibility;

Navy personnel assigned to Marine Corps units follow Marine Corps policy, and vice versa.

Here's the criteria and also some good examples of how Marines may qualify for this award

 

http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/navawards/blseaservice.htm

 

There ya go.....

[hink441]

I did not think anyone was questioning the sea-service ribbon. The sea service ribbon is a very common award for fleet Marines.

 

I do find it interesting that he has little to no personal Army awards.

[seanmc1114]

Other that the obvious way to find out how he earned some of these awards, (which is to respectfully ask him), here's a clue you ribbon detectives have not yet explored.

At the risk of appearing like an internet stalker, I went back to the original facebook post (which I just noticed is dated 2011) and saw that Sgt. Greenwald had posted a comment below the picture since some of the comments on there were also curious about his MC ribbons. I posted a comment myself mentioning this particular topic and asking him about his MC service. We'll see if he responds.

 

In the meantime, I clicked on his facebook page and looked at his pictures. For anyone interested, here's

a link to a later picture showing him as a Sergeant with an updated ribbon rack including the Army Commendation, Army Achievement and Army Good Conduct Medals but neither of the Navy unit awards: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=559104354117591&set=pb.100000540942134.-2207520000.1366830353.&type=3&theater

[Jarhead8007]

He was probably deployed with 3/1 (3d Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment) when 13th MEU was involved in the USS Cole operations. If he stayed with the unit, he would have been with them in Iraq in 2003, earning his second SSDR, as well as the CAR and PUC. The only thing curious is the Marine Corps Expeditionary Medal is out of place. I think it should be between his Good Conduct and his Nat'l Defense.

 

I know many Marines who retreaded into the Army - the promotions are a little bit faster.

[seanmc1114]

He was probably deployed with 3/1 (3d Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment) when 13th MEU was involved in the USS Cole operations. If he stayed with the unit, he would have been with them in Iraq in 2003, earning his second SSDR, as well as the CAR and PUC. The only thing curious is the Marine Corps Expeditionary Medal is out of place. I think it should be between his Good Conduct and his Nat'l Defense.

 

I know many Marines who retreaded into the Army - the promotions are a little bit faster.

 

If you check out the newer picture I referenced in my previous post, the MC Expeditionary ribbon has been moved.

 

[ASL]

Just a thought regarding the absence of the ASR and the wearing of DON unit awards with personal awards: maybe he just hasn't gotten around to buying a new ribbon rack yet and didn’t want to dismantle the one he had to support adding the ASR and removing the unit awards so they could be worn with the other unit awards?

[Goober]

There are definitely discrepancies. I served in two branches. From Air Force to Army. For instance my Army Guard and Reserve units were allowed to wear the PUC, in compliance with Army Regs I had to move my AFOUA to the right side with my PUC. Odd looking? Yes, but regs are regs. Also my AF Marksman Ribbon had to be removed. The Army Regs did not allow the ribbon to be worn at all. I had two Air Force qualification badges, of which the Army only allowed me to wear one. Even though I was at the time a NCO in the AF, the Army reduced my rank. They did this to Air Force and Navy but not the Marines. It is odd that if he's active duty he got away with wearing his ribbons in such a fashion. He should be wearing the Army Training Ribbon for sure, and his unit awards should be moved to the right side. My take is if he had the time to purchase his other awards and assemble them in fashion he should have had his rack corrected as well. Going before a board with such discrepancies when I was in would put you out of the running for any such award.

[jdamaso111]

funny story about the ASR my ladys dad jokes that when he went from the marines to the national guard the guys that went with him refused to wear the rainbow ribbon so that could explain why he didn't wear in a comical way.

[CHASEUSA11B]

It was my understanding that the Army Service Ribbon was awarded after completing AIT or after four months service in the Army after transferring from another branch. Maybe the former Marine hadn't been in the Army long enough when the picture was taken?

 

Come to think of it, there was a former Marine in my unit who didn't wear it but IIRC he thought he wasn't allowed to wear it. I know if I had my choice I wouldn't have worn it. It is just another superfluous award on already overinflated ribbon-racks.

[Jack's Son]

Someone should send this picture to the local Army recruiter and see what he has to say. Maybe the Gunny too.