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WW1 Shreve & Co Wing


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#1 cwnorma

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 11:06 AM

Before these disappear, I wanted to get them posted here for everyone's education. This is one of the classic wing badges of WW1, and a rare opportunity for someone with deep pockets. This wing was made by Shreve & Co of San Francisco.

Wing enthusiasts enjoy:

WW1 U.S. Pilot's Wing By SHREVE Item number: 190205964571

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#2 cwnorma

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 11:08 AM

Detail

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#3 cwnorma

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 11:09 AM

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#4 cwnorma

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 11:10 AM

Detail

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Chris

#5 pfrost

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 12:02 PM

ooohhhhhh, chillllsssss!

Yes, deep pockets to own this bugger! But a real beauty and hard to beat.

I have a similar wing, but was lucky enough to grab mine at a flea market. Mine is a 3-piecer, with no hallmark (only marked sterling). Maybe made by the same company? I dont know, but it sure is a wonderful wing.

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  • WWI_pilot2.jpg


#6 John Cooper

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 12:14 PM

I will have to take out a second on the house.... lol

#7 cwnorma

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 12:14 PM

ooohhhhhh, chillllsssss!

Yes, deep pockets to own this bugger! But a real beauty and hard to beat.

I have a similar wing, but was lucky enough to grab mine at a flea market. Mine is a 3-piecer, with no hallmark (only marked sterling). Maybe made by the same company? I dont know, but it sure is a wonderful wing.


Patrick,


untitledw.jpg


Comparing the two, the die work is extremely similar. The shield especially is almost identical. I believe the three piece wing to be an earlier version by Shreve & Co. I think that in mid 1918 they started off to make a "Dallas" type 3 piece wing, and when the one piece badges were authorized in October 1918, some enterprising craftsman soldered the pieces together forming a one piece badge. Later, they cut a very similar one piece die. Probably intending to mount them on a back-plate, the three piece ones were never hallmarked. Since all three pieces are clearly die struck; that is the only reason I can think of--It is easier, production wise, to strike a one piece badge than three separate pieces and solder them together.

Just my thoughts on this beautiful wing.

Chris

Edited by cwnorma, 15 March 2008 - 12:39 PM.


#8 cwnorma

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 12:21 PM

While on the topic of Shreve wings,

I really don't want to open this can of worms again, because he is a friend of mine, but Joe *************** recently started making a reproduction of the Shreve Wing. Up till now there weren't any known reproductions of this particular wing.

WW1 Pilot Wing Sherve Design Sterling Silver Item number: 190205766784

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Forewarned is forearmed.

Chris

Edited by cwnorma, 15 March 2008 - 12:22 PM.


#9 Plant#4

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 05:30 PM

OK, let me get this straight... are both wings a hollow remake / strike? Is one of these sellers telling the truth and the other thinking they have the Holy Grail? I am not sure of what the implying that the posts are trying to point out. But I did notice that both wings have something blotted out on the back, what was it?
As a side note, to reproduce a hollow restrike, it would still cost a small fortune. ( unless someone had access to this kind of equipment and skill level. ) Dave

#10 pfrost

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 05:35 PM

To recap,

The first wing, the one that started this thread is a classic Shreeve and Co. WWI wing. The second and third wings posted are similar variations (likely also made by Shreeve). The last wing is a cast wing made by Joe *************** and frequently sold on ebay.

I am not sure how the first wing is made, but it seems to be hollow, with three "weep" holes. I suspect it is basically a two die-struck piece wing (front and back) that has been soldered together to form a hollow wing. The second and third wing are solid die struck wings made of mutliple pieces (the wings and the shield). The last wing is likely a cast copy of an original Shreeve wing.

Hope that helps.

Patrick

#11 Plant#4

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 05:44 PM

Understood. A solid wing with "fake" relief holes would be a dead give away, anyway. I see that the backs of both pairs, 1st and 3rd, have something obliterated above the word sterling and I was wondering what they were removing from the wing.
Thanks for the education, by the way. Dave

#12 cwnorma

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 05:48 PM

OK, let me get this straight... are both wings a hollow remake / strike? Is one of these sellers telling the truth and the other thinking they have the Holy Grail? I am not sure of what the implying that the posts are trying to point out. But I did notice that both wings have something blotted out on the back, what was it?
As a side note, to reproduce a hollow restrike, it would still cost a small fortune. ( unless someone had access to this kind of equipment and skill level. ) Dave

Dave,

The wings at the top of this thread are real. They are very nice, highly desirable, and the price reflects that. They are not actually hollow. Shreve drilled three small holes on the back of the wing that slipped over pins on the jewelers bench and kept them from sliding around when the gold "U.S." was added. People sometimes call them weep holes, because that is what they look like.

It is strange that the Shreve hall mark has been obliterated from the original wing at the top. I can only speculate as to why this is the case. My best guess is because they were re-sold by another jeweler, and whoever they were they didn't want Shreve's hall mark on their wing. Still, that wing has nothing to apologize for. It would be the centerpiece of nearly any wing collection.

The wings in post number 8 are copies newly made by Joe Wiengarten of *************** Galleries. Until recently, there were no known copies of the Shreve wings. These wings are so new, he hasn't even put them on his website yet.

This forum is about education, and an unsuspecting wing collector might have seen one of ***************'s copies, and thinking that style had not been reproduced may have gotten taken. That is why I posted them here.

Chris

#13 cwnorma

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 06:12 PM

All,

Here is another Shreve & Co wing that I pulled off of the now defunct "Witt Worldwide" website. The catch is obviously a repair. This wing exhibits a different configuration of the bench-vise holes:

ShreveWing1x.jpg

Chris

#14 cwnorma

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 06:17 PM

Here are more miscellaneous photographs of the Shreve wings I pulled off the web. I don't know who the original poster was.


wwi5.jpg

wwi4.jpg

wwi1.jpg



#15 cwnorma

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 06:19 PM

Finally one last shot from the web:

wwi2.jpg



#16 JonG

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 05:41 PM

For those of us that don't know, is the $1750-$2200 a fair price?

Maybe I could talk the wife into buying me that for my Birthday http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/think.gif

#17 cwnorma

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 07:43 PM

For those of us that don't know, is the $1750-$2200 a fair price?

Maybe I could talk the wife into buying me that for my Birthday http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/think.gif


Well, lets see,

In January, I paid pretty close to the lower figure for a different, but equally classic wing. Ron would probably ask closer to the higher figure from his website. A nice set of embroidered pilots wings sold for $1700 on ebay in February, and a Robbins wing sold there about 10 days ago for $1400. So I think that he is really in the ballpark, probably towards the high end.

The Shreve & Co wing is considered by many to be the epitome of the wing makers art.

Just my humble thoughts.

Chris

#18 John Cooper

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 07:57 PM

Well, lets see,

In January, I paid pretty close to the lower figure for a different, but equally classic wing.
Chris


Photo's would be nice :)

#19 cwnorma

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 08:08 PM

Photo's would be nice :)

Off topic but sure, why not:


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Chris


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