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The Rare USMC WW2 T handle Shovel - what to look for


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#76 ArchangelDM

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 11:03 PM

Woaw! Terry (Bagman) thanks for this breakthrough.

Your research seems to explain everything - I think this mystery is now solved. I always thought these were outright fakes, but given all the points brought up this makes a lot more sense, I think both sides can be satisfied.

Is it possible that the shovels are also from the same era? Is it proven 100% they are WWII production? I looked for hours trying to find a WWII photo of a marine with this "re-enforced" shovel to no avail...

-Steve


The shovels are ww2 period pieces, unless you see a marine with one in his hand using it and you can see the back of the shovel it is hard to see which type of t handle they are using

#77 robinb

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 06:21 AM

In 41 years of collecting US field gear, I've owned 150-200 T handle shovels, and have never found or even seen one of those reinforced shovels. I find it hard to believe that they are a US military piece. But if some proof turned up otherwise, then that would be great. But until the proof is found, I'm just not convinced.

#78 ArchangelDM

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 01:16 PM

In 41 years of collecting US field gear, I've owned 150-200 T handle shovels, and have never found or even seen one of those reinforced shovels. I find it hard to believe that they are a US military piece. But if some proof turned up otherwise, then that would be great. But until the proof is found, I'm just not convinced.


Ill find the book they are in , believe its by a very well know us military collector.

#79 ArchangelDM

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 01:18 PM

Harlan Glenn's advanced collecting 782 gear book page 167 for photo and description.

That should solve that little mystery :-)



#80 Steve1987

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 05:17 AM

Ill find the book they are in , believe its by a very well know us military collector.


Just because the item is in a book to me doesn't prove or disprove that it's a genuine USMC item.

The shovel covers are also shown in advanced collecting books, but as we see they are most likey Korean war items.

Regarding the shovels themselves, I'm really not sure. But we have not seen solid proof either way, no period photos, no contract information, no firm dates of production, nothing really concrete. I'm still not comfortable with this item to add one to my collection, maybe new information will prove they are definitely legitimate at some later point and I will change my mind.

Interesting that these rare shovels are consistantly turning up on e-bay now for around $300. Whenever one sells, another becomes available. Someone must have a huge supply of them...maybe just like the post war shovel covers....seems strange....

-Steve

Edited by Steve1987, 03 April 2013 - 05:18 AM.


#81 norwegian blue

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 06:42 AM

Hello
I have only briefly collected USMC stuff so I have no sound inflormation on these "reinforced" T-handle shovel. I have however collected Army stuff for 35 years and the first M-1910 shovel I bought in one of the many surplus stores in the flea market here in Paris, more than20 years ago, was this 'reinforced' pattern. Since it has no markings and the 'forest green" color is consistent with some of the post-war French "a

#82 norwegian blue

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 06:45 AM

sorry, premature posting, let me continue
Since it has no markings and the 'forest green" color is consistent with some of the post-war French "army green" paint finishes, I would agree with Doyler this is a French made post war shovel. Now why would we produce these while there were thousands of good ol' American shovels lying around I don't know. The fact that these turn up from time to time outside of France can be explained by the fact that the French army surplused huge quantities of E-tools in the last ten years (mostly the folding M-1943 pattern, mind you).

#83 doyler

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 07:10 AM

The addition of the U.S. stamp qualifies these as fake. People go to great lengths to cheat us out of money. I looked at a Luger today that had been modified by changing the serial number.......to number 1. Also the T Handle was declared limited standard in 43, I think, so why would they make covers in 45? But it doesn't matter to me as if they added the U.S. they killed these pieces. We had a dealer in Memphis that went thru a whole case or two of wire cutter pouches and stamped each one with a USMC mark. The problem there was, they weren't stamped at all so he ruined them! I learn something everyday and these may be right but I just don't see it.


The guy out of nebraska did the same thing with mint 1917 cartridge belts.He said he couldnt sell them and every one was asking why no US stamp?/So he had them stamped and sold everyone of them.I asked Why??He said that the "dumb farmers" wouldnt buy them unless they were marked so I marked them.........

#84 witriflyguy

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 05:41 PM

Thanks for sharing! I had no idea this rare variation existed. 



#85 Ronnie

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 05:51 PM

I have since joined the list of believers on these covers.....they made a believer out of me. :)

#86 collector

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 04:56 PM

Didn't see any references to this thread, probably missed it but here is the url anyway.

 

 

http://www.usmilitar...-or-euro-clone/




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