US M1816 bayonet

[Orita]

- I was able to get a US M1816 socket bayonet in very good condition. The triangular blade is 16 inch [406mm] long. The top face of the blade has a flute only 8 1/4 inch [209mm] long. There is a "T"-shaped mortise and the distance between stud and muzzle is 1 3/16 inch [30mm]. There is the bridge over the stud groove and no locking ring since the M1816 socket bayonet didn't have one. Both back flutes are deep and wide for the full length of the blade which ends with a "prow" style point. By the shank the top face of the blade is 0.905 inch [23mm] wide. The 3 inch [76mm] long socket has an interior diameter of about 0.826 inch [21mm]. The bayonet has an overall length of 19 inch [482mm]. ---> Markings: A) The socket is clearly stamped "S 89". Is this a batch number????? The wide face of the blade by the shank is deeply stamped with "US" over "JB". Could the letters "JB" be the initials of the inspector who checked the bayonet???? I was able to find a list showing "U.S. Inspector Markings" and for the letters "JB" is mentioned the name of "JAMES BELL" and the year "1827". In this situation I may assume that my M1816 socket bayonet was made in 1827 [or perhaps late in 1826] and it was inspected by Mr. James Bell. Anyone who knows where "James Bell" did work, at what Arsenal???? The "U.S. Inspector Markings" list I mentioned above can be seen here at http://proofhouse.com/cm/us_inspector.htm ---> NOTE: If somebody wants to see pictures of my M1816 bayonet, they'll be ready in a few days. I hope somebody can answer to my questions. Orita 03/06/08

[Greg Robinson]

Nice find!!! The early US socket bayonets are hard to find....earliest bayonet I own is an unmodified M1855 made by Collins & Co. I wish I knew more about them but I'd guess your theory re it being inspected by James Bell is probably correct.

[Orita]

- @ Greg: Until recently I completely ignored the socket bayonets of the 19th century and in my opinion this had been a big mistake. In a very short period of time I was able to get 3 socket bayonets: "US M1816 bayonet" for the M1816 smoothbore muskets, "British Patt.1853 bayonet" and the "Austrian made M-1854 Lorenz rifle bayonet" [see my topic]. All these models of socket bayonets were used during the Civil War [1861-65]. I'm just trying to learn how much I can about these 19th century socket bayonets and this is why I've asked questions. With some help, my pictures showing the US M1816 socket bayonet will be posted here tomorrow [i hope!]. ---> NOTE: I forgot to mention above [in my original post] that near the markings "US" over "JB" there is also stamped half of the letter "H" [meaning unknown to me]. Orita 03/07/08

[Orita]

- Erwin will post below 4 of my pictures [2 and 2 together] showing my US M1816 socket bayonet. Note the "T"-shaped mortise, the "S 89" mark stamped on socket and the markings "US" over "JB" [and half of the letter "H"] stamped on the flat surface from top of blade by the shank. Orita 03/08/08

[Jeeper704]

The US M1816 bayonet

 

 

[Orita]

- @ Jeeper704: Thanks for posting my 4 pictures above. Now I hope to get some answers to my initial questions about my US M1816 socket bayonet. Orita 03/08/08

[SARGE]

Orita,

 

A nice clean example of the M1816 bayonet. I think you are right on the money with your marking identification. I have seen similar socket markings to your "S 89" and I believe them to be US unit property markings. While these 1816 bayonets were some of the first to be interchangeable I don't think they are all guaged quite the same. So, the markings may have been to align the bayonets to rifles they were known to fit on or simply rack or unit property markings. These markings seem to disappear with later bayonets when production became more uniform and interchangeability was less of a problem.

 

Do you have a copy of Hardin's Bayonet book? You also need a copy of Reilley's book on US socket bayonets and scabbards.

[Orita]

Orita,

 

A nice clean example of the M1816 bayonet. I think you are right on the money with your marking identification. I have seen similar socket markings to your "S 89" and I believe them to be US unit property markings. While these 1816 bayonets were some of the first to be interchangeable I don't think they are all guaged quite the same. So, the markings may have been to align the bayonets to rifles they were known to fit on or simply rack or unit property markings. These markings seem to disappear with later bayonets when production became more uniform and interchangeability was less of a problem.

 

Do you have a copy of Hardin's Bayonet book? You also need a copy of Reilley's book on US socket bayonets and scabbards.

- @ SARGE: Many thanks for your reply. Unfortunately I don't have the books you montioned above. Are you 100% sure the US M1816 bayonets were already interchangeable??? I'm asking this question because in England only starting with 1840s the bayonets of the same type [pattern] were interchangeable. There is an interesting article here at http://www.usmilitaryknives.com/bayo_points_28.htm about the US M1816 bayonets and their markings. I think the US M1816 bayonet was the last model not to have a locking ring. Orita 03/09/08

[SARGE]

I am not certain they are actually very interchangeable at all. This pattern was an attempt to be interchangeable but just a first attempt at a standardized pattern. Hardin quotes a letter from Col Decius Wadsworth to the Secretary of War dated June 10, 1915 stating this bayonet was part of an attempt to standardize long arms. There are quite a few T slot bayonets like this that are called the Model 1816 but there are differences between them. Don't forget the Civil War period T slot bayonets made much later to fit older arms when they were needed.

 

Try to find a copy of Albert Hardin Jr., "The American Bayonet 1776-1964" if you possibly can. Long out of print but copies can be found.