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USGI Shotgun Ammunition


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#1 ponyradish

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 01:32 PM

Here are a couple of full unopend WW2 shotshells.Both boxes are marked" U.S. Property". They are dated 1944 and one is still sealed in the waterproof paper packageing.I'm thinking of running these through an auction.Any comments on approx. value would be appreciated.Thanks,Pony.

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#2 ponyradish

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 01:33 PM

Here is the other picture.

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#3 Charlie Flick

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 06:45 PM

PR:

I would estimate $50 to $75. I know of a guy with No. 8 shot ammo made by Winchester who was trying to get $75 for a sealed box and was struggling to get bites. A year or two ago I had some US Property Remington 00 buck that no one wanted for $50 a box. Ended up giving it away to a pal. The No. 8 stuff does not seem to get a lot of interest as it was intended for gunnery training/skeet/trap and not combat use.

You might try posting here for sale before going to the Auction sites. Use the For Sale subforum. Good luck.

Charlie

#4 Charlie Flick

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 12:50 PM

Gentlemen:

 

It is a recognized phenomenon that firearms collectors tend to branch out and add items to their collections beyond the guns. This is especially true of USGI firearms collectors who, like me, find themselves buying holsters, spare parts, tech and field manuals, slings, and all manner of other accoutrements. Today's topic brings me to one of those peripheral items that I find very interesting and that subject is ammunition and, more specifically, USGI shotgun ammunition as used over the past 100 years by US forces. It is well known that the US military has used, and continues to use to this day, a wide variety of shotguns for guard, riot, combat and skeet and trap shooting for aerial marksmanship purposes.

 

I'll post here photos of some of the types of USGI ammunition I have encountered in my travels. All items and photos posted here are from my collection, unless stated otherwise. I have picked up photos from many sources over the years, usually as a visual reminder of items that I would like to add to the collection but have not always recorded the source of the photo. (Apologies in advance to anyone whose photo I have borrowed without attribution. I will be happy to provide that attribution if you will let me know.)

 

This is not intended to be a comprehensive listing, as I am sure that there are many types of ammunition not yet found in my collection or otherwise shown here. For my own collection I have chosen to forego proof, test, experimental and prototype ammunition and favor boxed ammo rather than singles. I invite other members to post examples of shotgun ammunition in their collections and to share their knowledge on the subject.

 

I'll start here with the smallest sized USGI shotgun ammunition. This ammo is the .410 gauge M35 ammo that was intended to be used for the USAF's M6 survival rifle/shotgun developed in the 1950's. The ammo was aluminum cased and contained Number 6 chilled shot for hunting game. This is the foil wrapped package for the M35 ammo manufactured by Western Cartridge Company. 410 M35 25 shell box WCC.jpg  

 

Inside the foil wrapping was this kraft box of shells. 

410 M35 No6 shot metal shell WCC.jpg

 

This is an unusual ammunition can for 30 rounds of .410 ammo. Note that the ammo is not identified as M35 and it carried Number 7 1/2 size shot. It is also Western manufactured (WCC). Photo source not recorded.  

410 ammo in 30 round can.jpg

 

Regards,

Charlie Flick


Edited by Charlie Flick, 20 November 2014 - 04:01 PM.
Restore images


#5 Charlie Flick

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 01:02 PM

Going back in time to World War One I show here what are examples of the 00 buck shot ammo. This stuff is very scarce and I don't have any in my own collection. This stuff is Remington UMC manufactured. Note the US Property marking on the top of the package. Photo credit Bob G. in AZ. (Thanks to Rick Larson for the proper photo credit.)


WW112ga00buckRemington1.jpg

It was learned rather quickly that paper shells would not hold up in the trench fighting of WW1. This Winchester box held 25 rounds of brass shells of 00 Buck shot. Photo source: Ordnance/Rick Larson.

WWI12ga00Winchester front credit Rick Larson.jpg

The top label on the Winchester box with the US Property marking.

WWIShotshells top label credit Rick Larson.jpg

A photo of the shells in the box with the unusual shell crimping. Photo credit: Ordnance/Rick Larson.WWI 12 ga Shotgun Ammo open box credit Rick Larson.jpg

 


Edited by Charlie Flick, 03 April 2015 - 01:11 PM.


#6 Charlie Flick

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 01:17 PM

Moving on to World War 2 here is a page from June 1945 version of Technical Manual 9-1900 Ammunition, General showing at page 68 the types of shotgun ammo then standardized.

TM9-1900 Ammunition General p68 shotgun ammo.jpg

At the top of the page above is the standard combat load, the 12 gauge M19 00 buck shot all brass shell. Seen here is a 25 round box of 00 buck ammo as manufactured by Winchester. As can be seen time has not been kind to the cardboard cartons this stuff was contained in. I generally shrink wrap my boxes to protect them from further damage.

12ga00Buckbrass25roundboxWRA1.jpg

A 10 round box of the M19 ammo as manufactured by Remington.

12ga00M19Buckbrass10rdboxRemington1.jpg

Yet another example of the 25 round packaging for 12 gauge 00 Buck loads, this time manufactured by Peters. Note the US Property marking.

12ga00BuckPetersVictorfrontlabel1.jpg

The top label on the Peters box. Note the "Special Heavy Loads" reference.

12ga 00 Buck Peters Victor top label.jpg

 

The open box showing the cartridges.

 

12 ga 00 Buck Peters Victor open box.jpg

 

Finally, a 25 round carton of Western Xpert brand manufactured 00 Buck in the commercial box. Note the US Property marking. Photo source not recorded.

 

Western12ga00buckUSProperty1.jpg

 

 


Edited by Charlie Flick, 04 April 2015 - 06:23 AM.


#7 Charlie Flick

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 01:30 PM

During WW2 huge quantities of shotgun ammunition were manufactured for US forces. Much of that ammo was intended for use in training aerial gunners.

This example of training ammunition contained Number 8 shot in paper shells as manufactured by Winchester.

 

12gaNo8CS25roundboxWRA1.jpg

Here is a photo of the same type of package showing the paper shells it contained. Not mine, and photo source not recorded.

 

WRA12GANo8ChilledShot open box.jpg

Here is a 10 round box of No. 8 shot 12 gauge ammo by Winchester. This stuff is not terribly difficult to find.

12gaNo8CS10rdboxWRA1.jpg

The same type of training ammo, but this time with Number 6 shot as made by Remington.

 

12gaNo610roundboxRemington1.jpg

The contents of another 10 round box by Remington with No. 8 shot paper cartridges. Photo source not recorded.

 

Rem12gaNo8shotUSGIshellsinbox1.jpg
 


Edited by Charlie Flick, 03 April 2015 - 01:55 PM.


#8 Charlie Flick

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 01:40 PM

Here is a sub-species of the 12 gauge training ammunition. This time it is No. 8 chilled shot with Tracer made by Remington. The benefits of adding the Tracer component are that it allowed the shooter to more easily observe just where he was shooting, and to make the necessary corrections. This is the only box of this type that I have encountered.

12gaNo8CSandTracerpaper25shellboxRemington1.jpg

This is an example of the same Remington ammo, but in a 10 round box. Photo credit: Bob G. in AZ.

12GaTracerandNo8ChilledShot1.jpg

This is pure Tracer ammunition, and it too is very scarce. I believe that this is also WW2 vintage but it is entirely possible that it post-dates WW2. If anyone can date it with more certainty I would like to hear about it. Note the "For Government Use Only" marking as distinguished from the more typical US Property markings. I have a sort of beat-up box of this stuff that did not photograph well, so I am using a good photo below from Bob G in AZ.

12gaTracerRemingtonAmmo1.jpg


Edited by Charlie Flick, 03 April 2015 - 02:10 PM.


#9 Charlie Flick

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 01:56 PM

Moving into the post-war era seen below is a page from the June 1956 version of TM9-1900. It illustrates the manner in which the shotgun ammunition was crated.

TM9-1900 1956 Shotgun ammo.jpg

By the time Viet Nam got underway commercial shotgun ammunition had been improved with the development of plastic cases. The 00 Buck shot ammunition employed by US forces was type classified as XM162 which utilized the plastic case. I understand the the X was later dropped and it became M162 ammo but I don't think I have run across a box so marked. This 10 round box is made by Western/Olin.

 

12ga 00 XM162 10 rd box WCC Olin ed.jpg

Another photo of the XM162 package showing the plastic shells. Photo source not recorded.

12ga XM162 00 Buck WCC.jpg

The Remington version of the XM162 as found with the foil wrapping. Note the 1-64 date stamp.

12ga00BuckXM16210rdboxRemington1.jpg

This is the XM257 ammunition that contained the No. 4 pellets of Buck shot. This stuff must be pretty scarce as I have never managed to get my hands on a box. Photo source: Rick Larson. Ammo: Woodin Labs Collection.

XM257No4BuckAmmoCreditRickLarson1.jpg

A 10 round white foil wrapped box of the XM257. Photo source not recorded.

XM25712gaNo4BuckWCCOlinWhitefoil1.jpg


Edited by Charlie Flick, 03 April 2015 - 02:29 PM.


#10 copdoc

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 02:00 PM

Nice collection Charlie
I really like the 410s in a can.

Edit I looked at pics before reading and asked something you already answered. LOL

Edited by copdoc, 30 October 2011 - 02:02 PM.


#11 Charlie Flick

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 02:05 PM

Next up is a box of 12 gauge 00 Buck that it think is probably post-Viet Nam. Wonder why it uses paper cases rather than plastic?? Not mine, and the photo source was Rick Larson.

00BuckOlinWhiteBoxAmmoCreditRickLarsen1.jpg

This stuff seems like it would be pretty handy when the door knob just won't work. I think this ammo has been used with great effect in Iraq.

12gaDoorBreaching5rdbox1.jpg

This Western made Flechette ammunition seems to be pretty exotic. I understand that Flechette ammo was in use in Viet Nam but I don't know if this stuff dates to that time. The 18.5 mm equates to 12 gauge. I think this is USGI but if any member knows differently I would like to learn more. Photo source Rick Larson.

WCC Flechette Ammo.jpg


Edited by Charlie Flick, 03 April 2015 - 02:36 PM.


#12 Charlie Flick

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 02:22 PM

Thanks, copdoc. Glad you enjoyed it. That's all I can do for the day.

Anybody else have some interesting USGI shotgun ammo?

Regards,
Charlie

#13 everforward

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 03:14 PM

GREAT thread, Charlie. Feeling quite nostalgic for my former shotguns and accessories right now.

Here is something I've held onto over the years, no lid but kinda neat...quick shot with my i-phone...

photo_1_.JPG

#14 everforward

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 03:16 PM

...And the end of the crate....

photo_1____Copy.JPG

#15 Charlie Flick

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 04:58 PM

Everforward:

Love that crate of Number 8.

Here is another quick one that I neglected to post earlier. These are loose rounds of WW2 12 gauge Dummy ammunition for training purposes. Photo credit: Hawkdriver. I'd like to find a complete box of this stuff someday.

12 ga Dummy credit Hawkdriver.jpg


Edited by Charlie Flick, 03 April 2015 - 02:01 PM.


#16 gunbarrel

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 05:20 PM

Next up is a box of 12 gauge 00 Buck that it think is probably post-Viet Nam. Wonder why it uses paper cases rather than plastic??


Charlie,

I can think of a couple of reasons why paper cases rather than plastic. These are SWAGS, mind you.

#1 Cost. Field shotgun ammo with paper hulls was a cheaper than plastic cases. If used for practice, it makes sense.

#2 If it's from the early 90's, rain and moisture is not a concern in the sandbox.

Thanks for a very interesting post! :thumbsup:

#17 Charlie Flick

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 05:32 PM

Charlie,

I can think of a couple of reasons why paper cases rather than plastic. These are SWAGS, mind you.

#1 Cost. Field shotgun ammo with paper hulls was a cheaper than plastic cases. If used for practice, it makes sense.

#2 If it's from the early 90's, rain and moisture is not a concern in the sandbox.

Thanks for a very interesting post! :thumbsup:

Good points, Rey. Thanks.

Charlie

#18 Charlie Flick

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 05:36 PM

Here is another WW2 example that I managed to overlook earlier. This Remington Kleenbore brand 25 round box is 12 gauge 00 Buck shot using the rather fancy pre-war packaging. The US Property marking is rather hard to miss. This ammo is not too difficult to find, in my experience.

RemingtonKleenbore12ga00Buck ed.jpg

The top label.

 

RemingtonKleenbore12ga00Bucktoplabel1.jpg

 


Edited by Charlie Flick, 03 April 2015 - 02:44 PM.


#19 copdoc

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 06:47 PM

Thanks, copdoc. Glad you enjoyed it. That's all I can do for the day.

Anybody else have some interesting USGI shotgun ammo?

Regards,
Charlie

Great pics Charlie

Not much to add but a few on the loose. Took a quick shot. I'll see if I can find some boxes.

Some military and police on second shelf

Def Tech Training round for CS/OC
Def Tech TKO Frangible
S&W tear gas grenade blank
WW tear gas grenade blank
AAI wad less grenade blank for MPG, factory inert
AAI Ferret inert
AAI Ferret factory cut away inert
AAI Ferret inert projectile
9mm RF not military or police but cute
WW XM257
WW XM257 different color and rim
12 ga brass case Military
last 2 are British 14 ga Martini

As best I remember, others are commercial just unusual or brightly colored :lol:

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#20 robinb

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 07:16 PM

Here's two unusual 16 gage boxes from my collection. Both US PROPERTY marked.
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#21 robinb

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 07:17 PM

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#22 Charlie Flick

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 08:42 AM

Robin:

That USGI 16 gauge ammo is very hard to find. I have none in my collection. Thanks for posting your examples.

Copdoc, I like the display. Do you have some boxes you can drag out for us?

Regards,
Charlie

#23 robinb

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 11:08 AM

I own a US Property marked 16 gage pump shotgun in my collection as well.

#24 copdoc

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 01:56 PM

Robin:

That USGI 16 gauge ammo is very hard to find. I have none in my collection. Thanks for posting your examples.

Copdoc, I like the display. Do you have some boxes you can drag out for us?

Regards,
Charlie

I have some boxes......if I can find them. I forgot the 410 US aluminum case in the above beside the 9mm rimfire. I called a real cartridge collector to see if he had seen the 410 in the can. He had not heard of it but just got another box of 410 military last week. When I get over to see him I'll get a picture if they are different. At 86 years old he is still finding things.

I remember as a kid shooting up a case of miscellaneous 16 ga military marked ammo. Most were partial boxes. Dad said they were paper cases so just grab a couple of shotguns and well use them up bird hunting. I wish I had saved at least a few. I asked him why they used 16 ga shotguns and he said they had a skeet range on base.

#25 copdoc

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 02:44 PM

Here are a few. The TG was marketed to military and police but is not military marked. I have never thought too much about military shotshells. I'll see what some of the real collectors have and see if I can get some pics.

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