Jump to content


INSIGNIA,BOS,SCARF,BIB-TYPE

Started by capt.maddog , Jan 22 2013 05:41 PM

  • Please log in to reply
232 replies to this topic

#1 capt.maddog

capt.maddog
  • Members
    • Member ID: 86,610
  • 287 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Saraburi Thailand

Posted 22 January 2013 - 05:41 PM

Hi

what's item? is used for?

http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa414/captmaddog/DSC07364.jpghttp://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa414/captmaddog/DSC07365.jpg

#2 ww2relichunter

ww2relichunter

    BANNED

  • Banned
    • Member ID: 107,856
  • 851 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New York

Posted 22 January 2013 - 05:42 PM

almost looks like a cooking apron

#3 1SG_1st_Cav

1SG_1st_Cav
  • Members
    • Member ID: 1,691
  • 4,145 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ohio

Posted 22 January 2013 - 05:44 PM

The Army wanted us to look sharp. So at certain times we wore scarves. Fortunately we didn't have to wear them in Vietnam. Danny

#4 jgawne

jgawne
  • Inactive
    • Member ID: 1,657
  • 3,048 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Outside Boston USA

Posted 22 January 2013 - 05:59 PM

branch of service scarf. Normally in the branch color.. cammo was supposed to be used by SF.

#5 atb

atb
  • Members
    • Member ID: 943
  • 3,889 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:East Coast

Posted 22 January 2013 - 06:04 PM

almost looks like a cooking apron


Just a bit too small for that use. The were worn around the neck under the uniform shirt (OG-107 fatigue or khaki). I wore a red one on Okinawa on special occasions or duty

#6 ww2relichunter

ww2relichunter

    BANNED

  • Banned
    • Member ID: 107,856
  • 851 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New York

Posted 22 January 2013 - 06:07 PM

thanks for the info mate now i know another fact if i ever see one of these

#7 patches

patches
  • Members
    • Member ID: 34,986
  • 18,916 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens N.Y.C.

Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:30 PM

A interesting one, it's in the ERDL pattern, up till that point really the only ones one would see would be those leopard or frogskin camo scarfs, these were fairly common in the early to mid 60s, being worn by quite a few GIs how posed for portraits in fatiques, plus as mentioned among SF types as well as Airborne types.

#8 Johnny Signor

Johnny Signor
  • Members
    • Member ID: 2,068
  • 6,461 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida

Posted 22 January 2013 - 10:09 PM

Weren't they also called an "ascot" there's anothe photo in the forum of a serviceman wearing one just like yours.under the Aviation Flight clothing section, Uncommon and Obscure Combat patches, first photo , ............................
Johnny

Edited by Johnny Signor, 22 January 2013 - 10:12 PM.


#9 patches

patches
  • Members
    • Member ID: 34,986
  • 18,916 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens N.Y.C.

Posted 22 January 2013 - 10:50 PM

Weren't they also called an "ascot" there's anothe photo in the forum of a serviceman wearing one just like yours.under the Aviation Flight clothing section, Uncommon and Obscure Combat patches, first photo , ............................
Johnny


Yes good eye Johnny, but on studying the photo it appears to be the standard 50s-60s frogskin/duck hunter scarf that Mitchell is wearing and not this ERDL type. Ascot, I think that was the 50s term for these, and or just another way of describing these by the the soldiers themselves, I,m sure all three names were used interchangeably in those days, Ascot, Scarf, Bib even with some probably calling it a Dickie. Not sure when these branch color and camouflage "scarfs' started to be U.S. Mil spec made though, you know with the GI nomemclature tags, maybe the late 50s early to mid 60s?

#10 Johnny Signor

Johnny Signor
  • Members
    • Member ID: 2,068
  • 6,461 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida

Posted 23 January 2013 - 10:13 AM

Just saw that I listed the photo , under wrong catagory of the forum, it is in the Shoulder/sleeve patch section under "Uncommon Combat patches" ...................
Johnny

#11 usmc-collector

usmc-collector
  • Members
    • Member ID: 31
  • 424 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Czech Republic

Posted 24 August 2013 - 03:56 PM

according to the military specification for manufacturing the following Classes and colors were used:

 

Class 1 (Black) - Chaplains Corps, US Army

Class 2 (Bottle Green) - Special Forces and Psychological Gperations Units, US Army

Class 3 (Brick Red) - Transportation Units, US Army

Class 4 (Buff) - Supply, Quartermaster, Supply and Services, Supply and Transportation ard Support Units, US Army and Coast Guard

Class 5 (Cobalt Blue) - Chemical Units, US Army

Class 6 (Crimson) - Ordnance and Maintenance Uinits, US Army

Class 7 (Dark Blue) - National Guard Bureau and Judge Advocate General, Adjutant General, Inspector General Units, US Army and Coast Guard

Class 8 (Green) - Staff Specialist and Military Police Units, US Army

Class 9 (Light Blue) - Infantry Units, US Army

Class 10 (Maroon) - Medical Units, US Army

Class 11 (Old Gold) - Women‘s Army Corps

Class 12 (Orange) - Signal Units, US Army

Class 13 (Oriental Blue) - Military Intelligence Units, US Army

Class 14 (Purple) - Civil Affairs Units, US Army

Class 15 (Scarlet) - Engineers and Artillery Units, US Amy and Permanent Professors, USMA

Class 16 (Silver Gray) - Finance Units, US Army

Class 17 (Teal Blue) - Branch Unassigned, US Army

Class 18 (Ultramarine Blue) - US Air Force & Aviation-Units, US Army

Class 19 (Yellow) - Armor and Cavalry, Units, US Army
Class 20 (White) Security Police, US Air Force ard Coast Guard
Class 21 (Camouflage) - US Army and US Air Force

Edited by usmc-collector, 24 August 2013 - 04:18 PM.


#12 Captainofthe7th

Captainofthe7th
  • Members
    • Member ID: 3,190
  • 4,011 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rhode Island

Posted 24 August 2013 - 04:11 PM

Great info in the above post usmccollector!  Since this resurfaced I figured I should add an image of a few of these ascots that I have:

 

http://s122.photobucket.com/user/Captainofthe7th/media/GEDC1242.jpg.html

 

These below are big, full scarves, not the snap back 'apron' style ascot.  These are from Korea and the 40th ID SSI is sewn onto the center, if I remember.  I do not think it's fully embroidered on.

 

http://s122.photobucket.com/user/Captainofthe7th/media/GEDC1243.jpg.html

 

Rob


Edited by Captainofthe7th, 24 August 2013 - 04:13 PM.


#13 patches

patches
  • Members
    • Member ID: 34,986
  • 18,916 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens N.Y.C.

Posted 24 August 2013 - 04:16 PM

You don't have the 40th Div one anymore? Are the one in the first photo 1950s-60s w/tags?



#14 Captainofthe7th

Captainofthe7th
  • Members
    • Member ID: 3,190
  • 4,011 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rhode Island

Posted 24 August 2013 - 06:40 PM



You don't have the 40th Div one anymore? Are the one in the first photo 1950s-60s w/tags?

 

The ones in the first photo do not have tags, I believe they're 50s vintage.  The Cavalry ascot was ID'd to a LTG who's name escapes me at the moment.  That'll give a clue to the era.  I still have the 40th ID scarves, they're just not with me right now.  I remember something unusual about the patch, like it's not just an SSI sewn on.  I could be mistaken.

 

I'll check on both the name and the 40th ID patch when I'm home again.

 

I also have these camo ascots that came in this group, ID'd to Maj. Shankle who served in Korea as a forward observer.  These should date to the mid 50s.

 

http://s122.photobucket.com/user/Captainofthe7th/media/1356489354.jpg.html

 

You can see there's one similar to the one in the group I posted made of 'chute material like the helmet cover, and then another 'frogskin' style.

 

Rob


Edited by Captainofthe7th, 24 August 2013 - 06:45 PM.


#15 patches

patches
  • Members
    • Member ID: 34,986
  • 18,916 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens N.Y.C.

Posted 24 August 2013 - 07:18 PM

A superb grouping there Rob, West Point Graduation Book and All. This Major Shankle, we take it he was alot junior when he fought in Korea, correct?

 

 While we have you. What class was he at the Point?



#16 Captainofthe7th

Captainofthe7th
  • Members
    • Member ID: 3,190
  • 4,011 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rhode Island

Posted 25 August 2013 - 04:47 PM

He was a 2nd Lt when he received the Silver Star at the Battle of Skeleton hill in May of 1951.  He graduated with the class of 1950  B)

 

http://www.usmilitar...rea/?hl=shankle

 

 

Rob


Edited by Captainofthe7th, 25 August 2013 - 04:52 PM.


#17 seanmc1114

seanmc1114
  • Members
    • Member ID: 1,761
  • 4,032 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Reynolds, GA

Posted 26 August 2013 - 05:32 AM

This is the image I am most familiar with. Special Forces Captain Roger Donlon, first Medal of Honor recipient of the Vietnam War. The pattern is different as some of the earlier posts mentioned but it does show how they were worn.

Attached Images

  • Donlon.Camo Bibb.jpg


#18 Sabrejet

Sabrejet
  • Members
    • Member ID: 8,022
  • 37,412 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wales, U.K.

Posted 26 August 2013 - 05:42 AM

I've got some miniature US patches, eg 82nd Abn...US made, cut-edge but maybe just 1" x 1" ? I was told that such patches were made for sewing onto "ascots"...would that be the case?



#19 patches

patches
  • Members
    • Member ID: 34,986
  • 18,916 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens N.Y.C.

Posted 26 August 2013 - 11:14 AM

I've got some miniature US patches, eg 82nd Abn...US made, cut-edge but maybe just 1" x 1" ? I was told that such patches were made for sewing onto "ascots"...would that be the case?

Supposedly yes, they have these miniatures also in various unit crests, but I also am of the belief that while they can be used on the ascot/scarfs, that they also were depending on the size worn on the shoulder loops as alternative to metal DIs, a cloth DI as it were, the Divisional ones, a cloth form of a metal patch type crest.



#20 patches

patches
  • Members
    • Member ID: 34,986
  • 18,916 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens N.Y.C.

Posted 26 August 2013 - 11:15 AM

Here another Parachute type worn in 1965.

                                                       php8dWwD6PM.jpg



#21 firefighter

firefighter
  • Members
    • Member ID: 105,435
  • 11,318 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:CNY

Posted 26 August 2013 - 12:06 PM

Heres Mel from 'We Were Soldiers'.His is blue but shouldn't it have been yellow for Cavalry? Also one of SSG Barry Sadler, Green Beret song.

 

024296_33.jpg

 

 

staff_sgt_barry_sadler.jpg


#22 patches

patches
  • Members
    • Member ID: 34,986
  • 18,916 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens N.Y.C.

Posted 26 August 2013 - 12:22 PM

Nope by 1965 Blue Infantry Distinctives were worn in the 1st Cav Division, had been since the Blue Stuff First came out, though in the early period after the Blue Stuff came out some, whether as a unit or individualy wore Crossed Sabres rather then Crossed Rifles.

 

This from an earlier post.

 

Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:21 AM

Here's the photo, I think this guys name is Abraham Lincoln, an Unknown unit of the 5th Cavalry in Japan 1956, we see the crossed sabres being worn with the Blue, not really sure who long this was affected, if it was confined only to the 5th Cavalry, or a specific unit within the 5th Cavalry, like a reach would be that Crossed Sabres may have been worn by the Regimental I&R Platoon in the Cavalry Regiments? As mention earlier the 1st Cavalry Division in the 50s early 60 contineud to display Cavarly Branch symbolisms, this might be a part of that, it is intresting though, the Cavarly ceased to be a seperate Branch , but as we have seen the Crossed Sabres without Tank continued to be seen being worn, usually by Officers, like all those Fatiques and Tropical Coats that crop up every so often, Officers most of the time Aviators, with cloth Crossed Sabre badges.

A nice candid photo.

post-34986-0-75527300-1358353231.jpg


#23 patches

patches
  • Members
    • Member ID: 34,986
  • 18,916 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens N.Y.C.

Posted 26 August 2013 - 08:49 PM

A earlier talk on this type of Uniform Embelishment.

http://www.usmilitar...on-bib-scarves/



#24 Captainofthe7th

Captainofthe7th
  • Members
    • Member ID: 3,190
  • 4,011 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rhode Island

Posted 28 August 2013 - 11:31 AM

Here's another one I have, with the small SSI embroidered directly.  This came along with Gen. Hodes' HBT shirt, but I do not think they're affiliated, other than he was CG of the 24th in Korea.

 

http://s122.photobucket.com/user/Captainofthe7th/media/GEDC1240.jpg.html

 

 

Rob



#25 hawk3370

hawk3370
  • Members
    • Member ID: 6,022
  • 948 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 28 August 2013 - 02:56 PM

Weren't they also called an "ascot" there's anothe photo in the forum of a serviceman wearing one just like yours.under the Aviation Flight clothing section, Uncommon and Obscure Combat patches, first photo , ............................
 

Johnny is dead on, called an "ascot". I wore this exact version in the 82nd Abn in 1964 and again with SF in 65-67. There were various colors, ie: blue for infantry, red for arty etc. Most often an honor guard would wear a white one with the unit patch centered. The proper way to wear it was to roll it about three times so the stitching along the top didn't show and then tuck it under your fatique jacket or Class A  uniform if in a parade.

Terry




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users


In Memory of Co-Founder GREG MILLS ROBINSON, a.k.a. "Marine-KaBar"
(February 17, 1949 - March 5, 2011)