Austrian M-1854 Lorenz bayonet

[Orita]

- Recently I got an Austrian made M-1854 Lorenz rifle bayonet. It is a quadrangle socket bayonet in very good condition and it has the original locking ring [with the tension screw] which is in median position. Unfortunately I don't have the origial scabbard. The socket has the unusual diagonal mortise slot. Dimensions: socket length => 3 3/16 inch [81mm]; socket [interior] diameter => 3/4 inch [19.4mm]; overall length => 22 1/8 inch [562mm]; blade length [4-sided] => 19 1/8 inch [486mm]. Markings: on the shank side there is an "asterisk"-like mark and the numbers "9.13" over "173." are also marked on the shank. => QUESTION: Anyone who knows the precise meaning of these markings??? ---> The Austrian made M-1854 rifle-musket was imported in large numbers into US during the Civil War [1861-65] and it was used by both armies [union & Confederate]. I have pictures showing the bayonet and the markings mentioned above. Since I only have a "WebTV" (ISP) I cannot post any photos here. With help from another member it can be done [i can send my photos via e-mail]. Thanks in advance for any help, Orita 03/01/08

[Jeeper704]

Orita sent me the following picture, so I'll post it here;

 

 

M-1854 socket bayonet for the Lorenz rifle.

 

Erwin

[Jeeper704]

Another one;

 

 

Erwin

[Orita]

Orita sent me the following picture, so I'll post it here;

 

 

M-1854 socket bayonet for the Lorenz rifle.

 

Erwin

- @ Erwin: Many thanks for your help, I do appreciate it! Two more of my pictures will be posted below by Erwin. In some pictures the locking ring isn't in position, in some it is. Note the shape of the 4-sided blade and the helical slot typical for the Austrian M-1854 socket bayonet used by the .54 or .58 caliber Lorenz rifle. Orita 03/01/08

[Orita]

- @ Erwin: Thank you! All my 4 pictures are now posted above. I hope somebody has an answer to my question about the meaning of those markings. Orita 03/01/08

[Orita]

- I forgot to mention that the number "19" is also stamped on the outside of the [socket] bridge. As I mentioned in the very beginning, this bayonet is for the M-1854 Austrian Lorenz rifle. An interesting article about this 19th century weapon can be read here at http://www.washingtonbluerifles.com/bilbylorenz.htm Orita 03/01/08

[SARGE]

Orita,

 

I think the number markings on the shank of your bayonet are European unit markings. My Austrian Lorenz bayonet also has the impressed askerisk and I believe that this is an inspection marking.

 

I hope this is helpful.

[Orita]

Orita,

 

I think the number markings on the shank of your bayonet are European unit markings. My Austrian Lorenz bayonet also has the impressed askerisk and I believe that this is an inspection marking.

 

I hope this is helpful.

- @ SARGE: I have the same opinion, the asterisk mark may be an Austrian inspection stamp and those numbers could show Austrian unit markings. Does your Lorenz bayonet also have numbers stamped on the shank??? It would be interesting to know what unit markings show the numbers "9.13." over "173." It is clear that my Lorenz rifle bayonet was used by the Austrian army before to be imported here in US. Since there are no more markings [excepting the asterisk and those serial numbers / unit markings] it looks like the Union or Confederate armies did not stamp the imported bayonets [in this case my Lorenz M-1854 rifle bayonet]. Orita 03/02/08

[SARGE]

Orita,

 

My Lorenz bayonet does not have unit markings like yours on the shank or the socket. It does have the asterisk on the shank and to the left of that mark is a "V" and to the right an "R". Conjecture might see these as a "Viewed" or visual inspecton by inspector "R" in the US manner. However, I believe very few (if any) imported foreign arms were inspected in the US. There is also a "V" followed by two dots on the back of the socket next to the bridge where you seem to have a number. I have always thought of this stamp as a hardening test mark. There is also a "C" on the top of the blade near the shank that I presume could indicate "Condemned" when the bayonet went out of service. Again, this is also conjecture. There is also an askerisk stamped on the top of the mortise bridge.

 

My bayonet is in the US issued four sided leather scabbard with an oval (not triangular) brass tip. The attached frog has two copper rivets and is unmarked.

[Orita]

- @ SARGE: Thanks for the interesting info. Unfortunately I don't have the scabbard for my M-1854 Lorenz rifle bayonet. The original scabbard was made of wood covered with leather and having iron mounts. From what I read, the Austrian M-1854 Lorenz rifle bayonet had been manufactured between 1854-1867. I would like to know which Austrian arsenal manufactured the rifle and the M-1854 Lorenz socket bayonet. Probably an arsenal from Vienna??? Orita 03/04/08

[SARGE]

Orita,

 

These Lorenz bayonets are certainly classified as secondary US / CS bayonets. It is impossible to say if they were made at the Wien arsenal or by private contractors in Austria. I have seen Austrian punchmark stamps (dots) on Austrian arms so I am fairly certain this mark, the asterisk, and the numbers are Austrian markings. Hardin and Reilly show the US leather scabbard issued with these bayonets by the Union army but I suspect the Confederates could have issued the original leather over wooden scabbards, although they would have had to have some sort of frog to attach to the waist belt. When US and CS agents bought the Lorenz rifles as "stands of arms" they would have included the bayonet but not necessarily the scabbard.

[Orita]

Orita,

 

These Lorenz bayonets are certainly classified as secondary US / CS bayonets. It is impossible to say if they were made at the Wien arsenal or by private contractors in Austria. I have seen Austrian punchmark stamps (dots) on Austrian arms so I am fairly certain this mark, the asterisk, and the numbers are Austrian markings. Hardin and Reilly show the US leather scabbard issued with these bayonets by the Union army but I suspect the Confederates could have issued the original leather over wooden scabbards, although they would have had to have some sort of frog to attach to the waist belt. When US and CS agents bought the Lorenz rifles as "stands of arms" they would have included the bayonet but not necessarily the scabbard.

- @ SARGE: In order to get some answers about the markings stamped on my M-1854 Lorenz rifle socket bayonet [the "asterisk" and the numbers "9.13" over "173."], I sent an e-mail with questions at the "Heeresgeschichtlichen Museums" from Vienna [Austria]. I'll post here their answer(s). Orita 03/05/08