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M3 M3A1 Grease Guns in Vietnam


SergeantMajorGray
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ThompsonSavage
Does anyone know of any German WW2 era weapons being captured or found in Vietnam during the VN era?

 

Take your pick: MP40, STG44, MG34, MG42, K98, ...

 

The NVA en VC used everything they could lay their hands on (British, US, German, French, Russian, Chinese, Japanese, ...)

post-45626-0-85193700-1357862806.jpg

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Does anyone know of any German WW2 era weapons being captured or found in Vietnam during the VN era?

98k's were one of the more common souvenirs from Vietnam. We had a couple of warehouses in Saigon where the rear echelon soldiers who had no opportunity to capture their own could apply to get a weapon or two issued to them to bring back. 98k's were the most common weapon I've seen issued from these warehouses.

 

Other German weapons that were encountered were lugers and P-38's. As a VN sniper collector I have a current Holy Grail of a VN bringback 98k sniper; logic tells me they must exist but I have yet to find one and I've been looking for 20 years. I've heard rumors of one or two but...

 

Getting back to the grease gun, I am currently rereading a book on VN era SEALS and the author mentions the use of the M3.

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I was an 8-year old boy when Charlie Starkweather went on his murder spree in 1958. The Governor was the last person to victim C. Lauer Ward alive. So the National Guard was called out to protect the city. The newspaper had picures of National Guardmen standing on a corner downtown armed with M3 Grease Guns, my Dad said they also patrolled in Jeeps with .30 calibers with the belt hanging out of the gun. Strange to photos of your home town with armed troops on the street. I didn't get to see any of that, all I saw was home, the neighbors car and school. Starkweather had a 1949 Ford and my Dad had a 1950 the same color. He would have a parade of Police cars follow him everywhere he went.

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In 1970, I wanted a little additional firepower aboard my OH-58A. I was flying a senior officer daily and he often put us in evil places. He carried a .45 with one magazine. I had a personal Colt Diamondback on my hip. I requisitioned the predecessor to the M4, but they were so rare, I was not considered. The ARVN had anything you wanted. I think I traded a bottle of whiskey and a carton of marlboros for a Thompson and 4 magazines. It had a full stock. The first day I planned on taking it after an hour at the range, I donned my gear, added my chicken plate, threw on the ammo vest, the survival vest left open,grabbed my helmet and walked to the flight line. I was winded carrying all that gear. I should have simply carried the weapon the my Kiowa first to see how practical it was. It was much to large to ever use inside the cockpit and much too heavy.

 

The new M3 greasegun was my next trade. I swapped the Thompson for that and also got a 9mm selective fire sub machine gun I never secured mags for. The lesson learned, I checked out practicality from the cockpit. The M3 would work. A friend told me I needed to test fire it and adjust the barrel to get the proper headspacing for the best rate of fire. So off to the range. Loved the weapon. BUT, I could not control it one handed. So a while later I traded down to a M2 carbine which I cut down and it made a wonderful loud big pistol on full auto . I wish I could have brought home all the different weapons I had in my locker at some time.

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historyandcultures

To me, this is a very interesting topic.Thanks for sharing this information. I find the flow of these WW2 era weapons into Vietnam to be fascinating. I understand how US WW2 weapons ended up in Vietnam as well as the Japanese and French but the appearance of the German WW2 weapons is amazing.

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My VN Natl Police counterpart once told me that ALL (at least in I CTZ/MR) police officers/supervisors had been OFFERED M.P. 40s under Diem. These were personal weapons, for home defense, not duty guns. According to him, more than half took them, and some got more than one. He even wanted to know if I knew of a source for more mags, as they were in demand.

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historyandcultures

This is a very interesting discussion. In had heard there was a wide variety of weapons used by both sides in Vietnam and the personal accounts of the members responding here supports that fact.

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A fellow collector (now deceased) that was a good friend of mine carried one while assigned as a US Navy PBR crewman in the Delta from 69-70. It was obtained through a trade with the Naval Weapons depot...he related them having a multitude of older weapons there. He said he liked the M3 because it fit well down inside the foward turret on the PBR.

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When I was at fort hood in the early 80's they were still an issue item in the 2nd Armored division. I carried one because it was much easier to carry than an M16 when you had to get in and out of the turret of your vehicle. We also had a competition called the Gunga Din award. I think it was created by the Division ADC , BG Bahnsen to develop esprit de corps. I believe the competition was.. team or individual.. 2 mile run, swim in the pool, and then 3 mags of M3 at a target. If I recall it was 2 magazines aimed, and one full auto... in 3 minutes or something like that.... so they were still in use until 83 when I left for Korea...

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In 2006, my son found an M3 Greasegun concealed along the Euphrates river in Iraq. He wanted to use it as a "turret gun" on his vehicle, but it was so badly rusted that he couldn't get the bolt to move. Another vehicle in his MiTT team had a STEN gun in their turret, to be used if someone got too close for them to be able to depress the main gun enough.

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  • 2 weeks later...

To me, this is a very interesting topic.Thanks for sharing this information. I find the flow of these WW2 era weapons into Vietnam to be fascinating. I understand how US WW2 weapons ended up in Vietnam as well as the Japanese and French but the appearance of the German WW2 weapons is amazing.

 

Not hard to figure out considering the geo-politics in play at the time.

 

The USSR captured millions of German, Czech, Polish, Rumanian, and even Italian & Japanese weapons during WWII. Rather than send AK-47s (which were in rather short supply until the late 50s) and/or to give an aire of innocence to being involved (sterility), the Soviets spread these captured weapons around hotspots like central America, the Middle East, Africa, and SE Asia. This shortage of AKs is why the USSR set up the Chinese, Egyptians, Yugoslavs and others with machinery to make them, rather than giving/selling the rifles to these countries from Russian production. With the quantities of Carbines and Garands we made during the war, the US did similalrly...

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Is that a M3 3 cell pouch???

 

pouch1.jpg

 

I have not seen one of these in use on a period photograph.....if anyone has an image that is clearer, please post it.

 

m3pouch.jpg

 

On the back of the pouch it reads:

 

POCKET

AMMUNITION

MAGAZINES

SMG M3

DSA 100-4479

8865-577-4918

 

I was beginning to think these were not issued......?

 

Gregg.

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Nice pictures of M3 submachineguns and other WW2 weapons.

 

There is a WW2 weapon, however, that I never thought it would have been used in VN due to the poor reliability record, but it was. It is non other than the Sten submachinegun.

 

Here are a couple of photos:

 

 

post-8022-1320841898.jpg

 

 

 

 

post-8022-1320841760.jpg

 

 

They are both versions with sound suppresion, and I imagine they were used by Special Forces.

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Gus

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In 1970-1971, I had TWO (2) MkII S Sten SMGs. One came to me from a Natl Police CAPTURE of a VC cache, and one from a US Natl Police Public safety advisor who said it was "gifted" to him by a "retiring" PRU. The former was very dirty on the inside -- like dried up chocolate syrup mixed with mini-grit sand; took me days to clean, first immersing it in mogas, then using paint stripper and degreaser. Once clean it was the devil to reassemble the baffles inside the "can". Both fired nicely and were indeed very quiet. Only the clacking of the bolt was audible in the outdoors.

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SOG used suppressed M3 grease guns before they could carry CAR 15s, as well as Swedish Ks and Stens... SOG men also had access to MP40/MP38s. Basically, in Sog, you could run what ever you wanted to.

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My Favorite :D

 

 

post-633-0-07421300-1360881477.jpg

I have that picture saved in my files as well as I had all theree weapons at some point. a wuestion on the M3: The first one I fired, did not have a cocking handle. You opened the dust cover and inserted a finger into the bolt (hole for that) to cock it. Was that a model or simply missing a part? I never carried that one, but later did carry the one with the cocking handle regularly in my Kiowa.
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a question on the M3: The first one I fired, did not have a cocking handle. You opened the dust cover and inserted a finger into the bolt (hole for that) to cock it. Was that a model or simply missing a part? I never carried that one, but later did carry the one with the cocking handle regularly in my Kiowa.

 

 

That was the second model of M3, introduced in December of 1944 and designated as M3A1. It was even simpler to manufacture, slightly lighter and it was easier to field strip.

 

 

Regards,

 

 

Gus

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That was the second model of M3, introduced in December of 1944 and designated as M3A1. It was even simpler to manufacture, slightly lighter and it was easier to field strip.

 

 

Regards,

 

 

Gus

Thank you Gus,

 

I had incorrectly assumed the cocking handle was an improvement, but it makes sense to keep it simple. The sling I used to hang it on the armored door plate did occasionally hang up on the handle. I did not carry it aloft long, but it was in my locker when I turned my area over to the new guy, who ever he was. I'm sure he was shocked if he was new in country at the ordinance I had in that locker. Thank goodness my roomy was into weaponry as much as I was.

 

Roger

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A neighboring PD, where I have several friends, has an M3A1 in new condition. Seems in the 1990s a little old lady came into the station with a bag and said her husband had brought home a gun from when he was in the service (WWII or Korea - the officer couldn't remember which). Since he had died, she didn't want it any more and wondered if the PD would take it... It was in new condition, quite obvious it had never been fired and barely cleaned as there was still cosmoline in a lot of the crevices.

 

We decided to take it to the range and try it out. I must say, I was a little apprehensive after reading and hearing about all the poor quality of the Grease Gun, but apparently those problems only cropped up once the gun was well-used, because this one in new condition shot like a champ! After using it close-up (10-15 yards) to find out it worked great and was quite accurate, I moved back to 25 yards, inserted a full magazine, and with an appropriately aggressive stance to counter recoil, cut loose with a full-mag-dump. Every single round was inside the 8-ring of the B-27 police qualification silhouette target.

 

For the $7 investment the government paid for them, they were real good guns. The govt. just held onto them and kept them in service WAY too long for a $7 gun!

 

Another buddy of mine was a Heavy Transportation officer in ODS, and he was issued an M3A1 in 1990!! 45 years later and still issuing them... No wonder they have a bad reputation!!

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