Case V42 - Omaha
Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:13 PM
Have the sheaths been reproduced??
Anybody have any opinions?
Posted 15 December 2012 - 05:01 PM
Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:28 PM
Cliff- I believe it is a V42, just rehandled, and no finish. The sheath is what I have seen the USS Omaha V42s in. Maybe Ron Doyler, or one of the other guys who are well versed in V42s will check in. I think it's all legit. SKIP
I thought the thumbprint location looked really strange. It looks like one side is off the ricasso. Mine has thumbprint dead center.
Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:44 PM
Posted 15 December 2012 - 08:54 PM
As the story goes, the shorter "Raider" sheaths were marked "USS Omaha"; then later 'XX'd-out', for reasons of OPSEC.
Some 'survived' the 'XX'd-out sheath'; and I have seen 'some' that appear legitimately marked "USS OMAHA".
I have seen several dozen of these supposed 'Omaha' sheaths, whether 'XX-ed' out, or not, in the last couple of years; which leads me to believe that there are some current individuals with some leather-index-stamps, handy... Way too many, on the market, for ALL to be legit.
My biggest question involves the seemingly inordinate plethora of these that seem to be currently 'out-there/available'.
And add to that the fact that ALL of the USS Omaha V-42s were "ordered to have been scuttled"*; just adds to the wonderment.
*[Yes, I truly doubt that few, if any, were "actually" scuttled...]
Yet, still, there seems to be way-more of these "available", than there "should-be".
Furthermore, the ENTIRE hilt assembly is just plain "wrong", on that eBay knife.
NEITHER the guard, grip., or pommel is correct... The indexing "thumb-print" does not look 'quite-right', either, (though very 'well-done/close').
The blade, while also well-done, seems to have some finely-detailed anomalies. [grinds are 'close-to' original, though, I am noticing subtleties, in actuality.]
NOTE THE COMPLETE absence of skull-crusher pommel/nut. Additionally, the "birds-beak" pomml that IS present...??
There are also too many letters "obliterated" from the sheath, than there should be, also.
Caveat emptor: BIGTIME, on this GEM!
Yeah, I s'pose that someone could have "theatre-customized" this knife. Although, and however(?), well done; I sincerely doubt that it is genuine.
Edited by DSchlagan, 15 December 2012 - 09:08 PM.
Posted 15 December 2012 - 10:21 PM
Posted 15 December 2012 - 11:13 PM
Posted 16 December 2012 - 12:03 AM
The V42s were all hand ground.There will be some(slight) variations in the blade grinds and the thumb print.I believe the thumb prints on the originals will have 21 grooves and 20 ridges.The font of the letters in the Case stamping are also very distinctive.
Edited by doyler, 16 December 2012 - 12:20 AM.
Posted 16 December 2012 - 04:02 AM
Posted 16 December 2012 - 09:23 AM
Posted 16 December 2012 - 09:37 AM
Posted 16 December 2012 - 09:51 AM
Posted 16 December 2012 - 01:47 PM
Couple of differences I see in the stampng. The "USS Omaha" on mine seems to extend farther to the right than the area that is stamped out on the eBay one and the "C-38" seems to be farther to the right than the "C-1" on the eBay one.
The rivets and stiching and the metal plate seem identical. Mine has been modified at the top to either accomodate the hanging wire or is an old repair, whereas the eBay one has what looks to be identical rivets at the top.
I agree with DSchlagan, there seems to be a disproportionate number of the Omaha sheaths available, although I can't recall one being offerd w/o the knife.
Posted 16 December 2012 - 01:54 PM
Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:08 PM
Posted 16 December 2012 - 04:54 PM
I have been reviewing this whole subject, for quite some time, with a fresh[er] outlook (and a little-less tired set of eyes-on).
When I first saw it, I must admit that the notice of 'so many' USS Omaha marked sheaths, of late, certainly evoked a high degree of skepticism and prejudice; right from the outset.
These factors, combined with the 'modified' hilt assembly, [and the kinda mood, that I was already in, before logging-on], ...and, as a result, the knife/scabbard just didn't seem right.
Now, with a more open outlook, [and thankfully in a better mood], I believe that my initial impressions/assessment, of this knife and sheath, were most likely in error.
I have seen 'offset' "thumbprints", before, on many legit V-42s; and the actual grinds DO appear as they were machined with original equipment. [Even the "commemorative" V-42s that Case made in the early '90s, do not have the same-exact thumbprint machining.]
The "bird's-beak" pommel, can also be easily explained, when compared to an 'un-ground' original.
...Just grind-off about 3/4 of the pommel's "flaring", and the entire 'skull-crusher':
Posted 16 December 2012 - 04:58 PM
Additionally, the 'XX-d' out portion, uses tooling that appears nearly identical to that performed on another USS OMAHA sheath that I have on file.
I believe that the only "real" difference, in the observed "obscurations" is that the two sheaths vary considerably in condition,
You will note what I earlier referenced as "even though it seems to have had "too many letters "obliterated" from the sheath, than there should be", when viewing this sheath.
In retrospect, 'somebody' mighta simply have gotten a little 'exuberant' with the process. Although, most all other of the obscured sheaths that I have seen, it is apparent (by the number of letters XX-d out), that it was "USS OMAHA", which was over-struck.
My apologies for earlier 'posting-difficulty-error' ; and the Moral of the story: Do Not post, when in a pissy-mood...
P.S. That is a fine idea, SKIP, to get a database started on the 'added' numbers involved!
Posted 16 December 2012 - 06:03 PM
Thanks for all the posts.Your observations are always of great intrest to me.I enjoyed your first posting as it really made me take a look at the knife in question.I had seen it originally when first offered for sale but was unable to save images to post with a previous V42 topic.I wasnt able to capture the pics and resize them with out the picture getting all skewed/distorted.
I dont know a lot about the Omaha scabbard(s) or who manufactured them but I do agree they all have that typical method of x-ing out the letters.
To address the scabbard posted by siclfde(thanks for posting) it looks 100 percent right to me.As far as the spacing of the letters and numbers I have always thought this was due to them being hand stamped as well by someone on board ship.
Posted 16 December 2012 - 08:03 PM
That site seems to say that the original (in the first example) has a thumbprint that goes all the way across. I read that to mean all originals have a thumbprint that goes all the way across. I guess in reading it closely, it doenst say that ALL originals have a print that goes all the way. Maybe I am confused on that issue.
Posted 20 December 2012 - 07:06 PM
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