M1A1 Carbine Question

[one50]

Recently purchased a M1A1 Carbine. The stock is a re-pop, no doubt. I purchased it as a place holder (I'm sure I'll be holding a LONG time)and display item for my 503rd wall.

It's an Inland MFG Div, barrel dated 12-44 and SN range 6,700,000.

I want it to show what the 503rd would have used, as accurately as possible.

So here are my questions.

 

It currently has the bayonet lug, should that be removed?

It has the larger rear site, should that be changed to a flip up site?

It has the lever for the safety, should that be changed?

 

Is there a compromise for some of the above questions while keeping the date and SN original parts.

 

Thanks

Dan

[TLeo]

It would not have a bayonet lug, and would a have flip rear sight and push button safety. Otherwise, a mix of GI parts internally would be totally fine.

[Big Al]

For your display, yes to your first 3 questions. Regarding the last one, parts for American guns were not serial-numbered to the gun like European guns at the time were. The reason for that in European guns is that event though the parts were made by machine, they were still hand-filed/fitted to the final tolerances. Consequetly the parts worked best with the gun they were originally assembled to and were serial-numbered to keep track of them during refits. So, nothing to worry about there with carbine parts, and GI parts in general. They were all interchangeable.

[tthen]

The parts installed on your carbine now are correct for the ser. number with exception to the safety. Changing them would make the weapon look correct for your purposes, but would be incorrect for the ser.# range.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[ccyooper]

I would listen to TTHEN... your carbine could have some value based upon its condition with correct parts. If you remove them you could possibly be lowering the value. If you want a display carbine .. buy an early inland with a 43 barrel date. They can normally be found in rough shape at a reasonable price... then knock yourself out building your display. Your display carbine won't lose value and you will still have your current carbine which could be in collectible condition with the proper stock ... with pics , I am sure the carbine gurus will be able to help you out...

[one50]

Picture of gun for you to check out.

I don't have a problem pulling off the bayonet lug, changing the site and safety. I only paid $300 for it.

Here is my dilemma...I do like things to be correct from the factory. I associate these 3 items with arsenal referbs...and not initial production runs, but I see that these items were production runs later in the war.

Since the barrel is marked 12-44 is that considered late and would it have left the arsenal with these 3 features? If it left the arsenal with these 3 features, then I'll leave it alone. If it didn't, I'll change it.

Right?

[one50]

Bolt

[one50]

Muzzle area.

[one50]

Safety area.

[Big Al]

You would also need to change the bolt from that one (which was intended for the M2 carbine to slow down the rate of fire) to the earlier one that is machined flat on top.

[SKYLINE DRIVE]

You would also need to change the bolt from that one (which was intended for the M2 carbine to slow down the rate of fire) to the earlier one that is machined flat on top.

 

The bolt is correct for a late war production M1 carbine.

[Big Al]

I'm sorry. I did not know that.

[SKIPH]

Do not change anything. The sight, barrel band, bolt are correct for that serial number range. Whats even better is the barrel date of 12-44. That puts it in the accepted range for the last order of M1A1 carbines. I have one in the 6,6xx,xxx range , but with a 1- 45 barrel. Even though mine is in the range, the barrel date puts it out of the last order. According to the experts I know. Mine is in an original second production M1A1 stock. SKIP

[101CH47]

I'm sorry. I did not know that.

 

 

Books, the best source for information.

[SKIPH]

Check out the CMP site. Their forum has folks that are real experts, and can give you much better and comprehensive info, and facts. Give them look and compare info. SKIP

[one50]

Skip,

Thanks for the info. I'll hit the CMP up and ask them. Maybe I'll take it there next time I'm up that way.

If I don't have to change anything based upon the SN and barrel date...that suites me fine.

I think the sling is post war, so, I'll change that and hang it up.

Now I search for a bayonet. Keeping the bayonet lug gives me an excuse to purchase one

[one50]

Just picked up a new book.

"The complete guide to the M1 Grand and the M1 Carbine"

By Bruce Canfield.

Just started looking it over...Full of answers.

Well worth the price.

[SKIPH]

one50- Now, bayonets, M4 carbine is something I relate to. There are plenty out there in varying conditions. You want WW2 era, leather handle. Look for WW2 manufacturers, Aerial(ACC), Camillus, Case, Imperial, Kinfolks, PAL, and Utica. Imperial, and Utica are the easiest to find, especially in mint condition. Price depends on condition, check ebay to get a better idea of price ranges. SKIP

[artu44]

Sincerely speaking I'm not certain that bayo lug and rear sight would be correct for the period. Considering the s/n block 6,664,884 - 7,234,883 (Jan. 1945 - Aug. 1945), it's clear that this specimen was made Jan 1945 and its barrel is the original one cause barrels were assembled within few moths after their production. Now, the first period pic where you can see a bayonet lug was shot in the last days of war in PTO so I think a flip sight and a simple barrel band should be advisable in this gun.

[SKYLINE DRIVE]

Sincerely speaking I'm not certain that bayo lug and rear sight would be correct for the period. Considering the s/n block 6,664,884 - 7,234,883 (Jan. 1945 - Aug. 1945), it's clear that this specimen was made Jan 1945 and its barrel is the original one cause barrels were assembled within few moths after their production. Now, the first period pic where you can see a bayonet lug was shot in the last days of war in PTO so I think a flip sight and a simple barrel band should be advisable in this gun.

 

I disagree, after the war there were quite a few M1 carbines with Type III barrel band picked up in my neck of the woods, so they must have been in use in the ETO as early as february/march, same goes for M4 bayonets.

 

EDIT: When I speak of "quite a few" I mean dozens rather then hundreds.

[SKIPH]

Type 3 barrel band w/ bayonet lug was introduced by Inland at serial number range 6,300,000. The type 3 adjustable sight was introduced at serial #6,220,000. The type 3 round bolt introduced around serial # 5,000,000. The type 4 safety was introduced around serial number 7,100,000. This is as per Craig Reisch "US M1 Carbines, War Production". SKIP

[artu44]

I see. My criticism originated from the notorious fact that you cannot find a single pic showing a bayonet lug in ETO.

[SKYLINE DRIVE]

I see. My criticism originated from the notorious fact that you cannot find a single pic showing a bayonet lug in ETO.

 

 

I didn't want to offend or critizise anybody, I should have formulated my post in another way.

 

 

 

BTW:

 

I also know about battlefield leftover M4 bayonets but I only found one pic, from Operation Varsity, which dates later, where a GI is shown with an M4, does anybody know about more pictorial evidence?

 

 

This is the pic I'm talking about, I have it in a much better resolution in a book, where you can see the ring to fix the bayonet quite well.

[SKIPH]

Bruce Canfield has a picture of glider infantrymen shaving their heads w/ M4s prior to Operation Varsity. This is on page 25, of "US Infantry Weapons of WW2". SKIP

[SKYLINE DRIVE]

Thank you Skip!