Jump to content


Photo

2nd LT Artillery shirt early vietnam era?


  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1 Renegade

Renegade
  • Members
    • Member ID: 104,907
  • 524 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:idaho

Posted 23 November 2012 - 05:46 PM

A 2nd louie ADA shirt and trousers heavy starched.

militaria 1 032 (400x300).jpg

#2 Renegade

Renegade
  • Members
    • Member ID: 104,907
  • 524 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:idaho

Posted 23 November 2012 - 05:48 PM

close up of name and rank

militaria 1 033 (400x300).jpg

#3 Renegade

Renegade
  • Members
    • Member ID: 104,907
  • 524 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:idaho

Posted 23 November 2012 - 05:49 PM

other side

militaria 1 034 (400x300).jpg

#4 Renegade

Renegade
  • Members
    • Member ID: 104,907
  • 524 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:idaho

Posted 23 November 2012 - 05:50 PM

trousers

militaria 1 035 (400x300).jpg

#5 Renegade

Renegade
  • Members
    • Member ID: 104,907
  • 524 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:idaho

Posted 23 November 2012 - 05:52 PM

tag

militaria 1 036 (400x300).jpg

#6 carrabassett

carrabassett
  • Members
    • Member ID: 3,604
  • 1,263 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Maine, USA

Posted 23 November 2012 - 06:24 PM

From the DSA-1 nomenclature it appears to date from 1965.

#7 patches

patches
  • Members
    • Member ID: 34,986
  • 24,150 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens N.Y.C.

Posted 23 November 2012 - 08:08 PM

Everyboby repeat after me, There was no ADA branch from 1957 to late 1968, there was only one branch, ARTILLERY, it combind the two functions in one super branch, the insignia of this new super branch was the traditional Crossed Cannons of the Field Artillery, with the Missle, the newer weapon of the Artillery superimposed at the axis of the cannons.

Great set of fatiques by the way.

#8 Renegade

Renegade
  • Members
    • Member ID: 104,907
  • 524 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:idaho

Posted 24 November 2012 - 09:28 AM

There was no ADA branch from from 57 to late 68 only artillery :D Thanks Patches!! us infantry will go back to our fox holes :rolleyes:

#9 patches

patches
  • Members
    • Member ID: 34,986
  • 24,150 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens N.Y.C.

Posted 24 November 2012 - 12:01 PM

There was no ADA branch from from 57 to late 68 only artillery :D Thanks Patches!! us infantry will go back to our fox holes :rolleyes:



I know it can be confusing, there were indeed Artillery units that did operate and man Air Defense weapons, but they were all lumped in with all Artillery units under the 1957 Combat Arms Regimental System or CARS, this would include Tube Artillery, both Towed and Self Propelled ( i.e. Armored) the only way one would be able to tell what type it was, was be the unit description or designator in parentheses at the end of the unit title. Plus soldiers who were selected (draftees) or voluntered (enlistees) for any one of those differant types artillery would take their AIT at two differant posts. The guys for Artillery that were to be Field Arty i.e. tube went to Sill for AIT, guys for Air Defense weapons went to Bliss for AIT.

Here are but five examples for those days.

1st Battalion 14th Artillery (105mm Howitzer, Towed)

3th Battalion 16th Artillery (155mm Howitzer, Towed)

1st Battalion 27th Artillery (155mm Howitzer, Self Propelled)

4th Battalion 39th Artillery (8" Howtizer, Self Propelled)

1st Battalion 42nd Artillery ( Honest John, Missile)

During the 60s the Army's Artillery operated numerous Air Defense Battalions, but they were not called as we have seen not called Air Defense Artillery, the weapons were Missiles, to include Hawk, Honest John, Little John, Sergeant, and Pershing missiles, the other type were called Automatic Weapons, to include Vulcan, Chaparral (first unit activated in May 1969, which by that time the Branch was already Split in to FA and ADA), Duster, and the old Quad .50 Caliber Machine Guns, also Searchlight units.

While the Artillery Branch was split in two in late 1968, the Artillery Battalions continued to be know under their 1957 CARS titles, it was in I think 1971 or 1972 ( not sure of the year there) that the Artillery units that operated Air Defense Weapons were finally designated Air Defense Artillery, as in the ADA unit that was a part of the 1st Cav Div when I was in it in 1980-81, the 1st Battalion 68th Air Defense Artillery,

To add one final point it would seem that those units under CARS, that operated Air Defense Artillery weapons tended to be ones associated with the old Coast Artillery/ Anti Aircraft Artillery, here after 1957 they just were no longer officially called by those old titles.

#10 Renegade

Renegade
  • Members
    • Member ID: 104,907
  • 524 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:idaho

Posted 24 November 2012 - 05:54 PM

Thanks Patches!! that brings alot more into the light, I appreciate it!

#11 patches

patches
  • Members
    • Member ID: 34,986
  • 24,150 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens N.Y.C.

Posted 14 October 2019 - 05:11 AM

post-1761-0-66570900-1368727651.jpg

Typical of the period, the Branch Insignia of Artillery, the 1st Bn 7th Arty, a  105mm Howitzer Battalion, Towed.



#12 Martinjmpr

Martinjmpr
  • Members
    • Member ID: 154,311
  • 735 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denver, CO

Posted 14 October 2019 - 05:20 PM

I know it can be confusing, there were indeed Artillery units that did operate and man Air Defense weapons, but they were all lumped in with all Artillery units under the 1957 Combat Arms Regimental System or CARS, this would include Tube Artillery, both Towed and Self Propelled ( i.e. Armored) the only way one would be able to tell what type it was, was be the unit description or designator in parentheses at the end of the unit title. Plus soldiers who were selected (draftees) or voluntered (enlistees) for any one of those differant types artillery would take their AIT at two differant posts. The guys for Artillery that were to be Field Arty i.e. tube went to Sill for AIT, guys for Air Defense weapons went to Bliss for AIT.

Here are but five examples for those days.

1st Battalion 14th Artillery (105mm Howitzer, Towed)

3th Battalion 16th Artillery (155mm Howitzer, Towed)

1st Battalion 27th Artillery (155mm Howitzer, Self Propelled)

4th Battalion 39th Artillery (8" Howtizer, Self Propelled)

1st Battalion 42nd Artillery ( Honest John, Missile)

During the 60s the Army's Artillery operated numerous Air Defense Battalions, but they were not called as we have seen not called Air Defense Artillery, the weapons were Missiles, to include Hawk, Honest John, Little John, Sergeant, and Pershing missiles, the other type were called Automatic Weapons, to include Vulcan, Chaparral (first unit activated in May 1969, which by that time the Branch was already Split in to FA and ADA), Duster, and the old Quad .50 Caliber Machine Guns, also Searchlight units.

While the Artillery Branch was split in two in late 1968, the Artillery Battalions continued to be know under their 1957 CARS titles, it was in I think 1971 or 1972 ( not sure of the year there) that the Artillery units that operated Air Defense Weapons were finally designated Air Defense Artillery, as in the ADA unit that was a part of the 1st Cav Div when I was in it in 1980-81, the 1st Battalion 68th Air Defense Artillery,

To add one final point it would seem that those units under CARS, that operated Air Defense Artillery weapons tended to be ones associated with the old Coast Artillery/ Anti Aircraft Artillery, here after 1957 they just were no longer officially called by those old titles.

 

Sorry for the quibble but Honest John, Pershing, Little John, Corporal, Sergeant, and Lance were not air defense missiles.  They were artillery missiles, designed to be fired at targets on the ground.   Some were "ballistic" missiles (i.e fired straight up in the air) and others were laid like a gun (I think the Honest John was like that) which is sometimes called a "free rocket."  

 

Some were capable of carrying nuclear warheads.  I think the Honest John, Lance and Pershing were all nuke-capable missiles.  The Soviets ran to the bargaining table when the US army started stationing nuke-capable Pershing II missiles and cruise missiles (which were operated by the AF) in the mid 1980's.  By the time I got to Germany in 1987 I think the Pershing II's were on their way out.  

 

Current artillery rockets include MLRS and ATACMS missiles which are part of field artillery.  


Edited by Martinjmpr, 14 October 2019 - 05:22 PM.


#13 patches

patches
  • Members
    • Member ID: 34,986
  • 24,150 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens N.Y.C.

Posted 14 October 2019 - 06:05 PM

 

Sorry for the quibble but Honest John, Pershing, Little John, Corporal, Sergeant, and Lance were not air defense missiles.  They were artillery missiles, designed to be fired at targets on the ground.   Some were "ballistic" missiles (i.e fired straight up in the air) and others were laid like a gun (I think the Honest John was like that) which is sometimes called a "free rocket."  

 

Some were capable of carrying nuclear warheads.  I think the Honest John, Lance and Pershing were all nuke-capable missiles.  The Soviets ran to the bargaining table when the US army started stationing nuke-capable Pershing II missiles and cruise missiles (which were operated by the AF) in the mid 1980's.  By the time I got to Germany in 1987 I think the Pershing II's were on their way out.  

 

Current artillery rockets include MLRS and ATACMS missiles which are part of field artillery.  

Thanks for the clarification Martin, the missles yes :lol: At Bliss I now gather were those of the Nike series or were there more.



#14 Martinjmpr

Martinjmpr
  • Members
    • Member ID: 154,311
  • 735 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denver, CO

Posted 16 October 2019 - 10:28 AM

Thanks for the clarification Martin, the missles yes :lol: At Bliss I now gather were those of the Nike series or were there more.

 

Hawk missiles were Army ADA missiles.  They were still on duty when I was in Germany in the late 80s.  I remember seeing articles in Stars and Stripes about Hawk sites that were "guarded" by flocks of geese (the geese would go crazy if anybody got too close to their nests, so they put nests around the Hawk batteries to prevent infiltrators from being able to sneak in.  The geese were both cheaper and more effective than electronic surveillance systems.) 

 

And of course the famous Patriot missile of the Gulf War.  Patriots were just being phased in when I was leaving Germany in 1989.  There was a Patriot battery (I think it was 6/43rd ADA BN) that went into a brand new kaserne just outside of Ansbach, where I was stationed. 

 

Also MANPADS (Man Portable Air Defense Systems) like the Redeye and Stinger. 

 

I don't know much about the Nike Ajax and Hercules missiles but the impression I got is that they were mostly fixed-base sites in CONUS and maybe Alaska, designed to defend against bombers. 

 

Then there is the BOMARC missile which I believe was the USAF's attempt to get into the ground-based air defense game.  I think it was after the BOMARC that the DOD had to start clearly delineating which service was responsible for which kind of weapons system as the BOMARC kind of encroached on the Army's ADA systems. 

 

Really I think it might have made more sense to put all ADA under one command, which is how the Soviets used to do it.  The Soviet military had 5 separate "services":  The Army, the Navy, the Air Forces (which was mostly the Strategic bomber and air transport forces), the Strategic Rocket Forces (i.e. ICBMs) and the Air Defense forces. 

 

Soviet "tactical" air forces (most front-line attack planes and fighter bombers) were part of the Air Force but actually under command of the "frontal aviation" commander who himself was under ARMY command. 

 

In practical terms, the Soviet "Air Force" was mostly the strategic bombers and the transport craft, tactical aircraft were under control of the Army and anything designated as "air defense" fell under the Air Defense forces.  Air defense included ALL aspects of air defense including radars, ground-based rockets and artillery batteries, and air defense/interceptor aircraft.  For example, the SU-15 aircraft that shot down the Korean Air Lines 007 flight was from the Soviet Air Defense Forces. 




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users