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Basic Wings Question


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#26 Tim B

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 11:31 AM

Very nice and comprehensive analysis Tim!! Your photography skills are also excellent.

Chris



Thank you for the kind words Chris, I just like to be able to contribute and hopefully others will find the information useful.

Tim

#27 Tim B

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 11:37 AM

Here's another pilot set, this one by the American Insignia Company (Amico). I have seen different hallmarks for Amico and "think" this one may be an earlier version, though I am not sure here. Again, the standard 3" X 3/4". Weight is 17.7 grams.

Nothing super on this pattern but it's a clean design, a bit more "art deco" IMO. :P

Tim

Attached Images

  • USAAF Pilot Wings - Amico.JPG


#28 Tim B

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 11:38 AM

A close up of the hallmark. Usually I just see a name. Anyone???

Tim

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  • USAAF Pilot Wings - Amico mm.JPG


#29 B-17Guy

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 11:48 AM

A close up of the hallmark. Usually I just see a name. Anyone???

Tim

That hallmark is the first of five used by Amico, however it is the only one generally seen on
packaging (cards and boxes).
Your wing is most likely from the early war years, probably 1941-1942.
A much more difficult version to find, is the same wing, with that hallmark, in non-sterling.

Best, John

#30 Tim B

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 12:06 PM

Hi John,

Many thanks for that bit of info. I had read on another site that this hallmark was fairly uncommon for AAF wings and more commonly seen on naval aviator wings. Good to know!

Tim

#31 Tim B

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 12:13 PM

I'll post one more set for today and stop, to allow others to view/comment on the thread thus far.

I've saved this set for last for a reason and more along the lines of why I was asking for more reference type of details to begin with.

Here's an unmarked aerial gunner wing that has some fine detailing to the wing feathering. I had "heard" that these highly detailed wings were sometimes found in Dan Smilo & Sons boxes, but I cannot confirm that is actually the manufacturer here. If anyone else knows...great!

The wing is the standard size 3" X ~ 3/4" but the weight is really light compared to others. Measures at 13.8 grams. I was concerned at first but attributed it to different manufacturers.

Tim

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  • USAAF Aerial Gunner Wings.JPG


#32 Tim B

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 12:15 PM

Following the same format here, here is a close up of the wing detailing. The contrast between the polished high points and the darkened recesses really set the wing off IMO.

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  • AAF Aerial Gunner Wings f wing details 1.JPG


#33 Tim B

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 12:16 PM

The catch is the flatter version, which seems to be standard for this manufacturer.

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  • USAAF Aerial Gunner Wings catch.JPG


#34 Tim B

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 12:18 PM

And here's a close up of the wing shoulder and notches, which appear to be characteristic for this manufacturer as well.

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  • AAF Aerial Gunner Wings f2 wing details.JPG


#35 Tim B

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 12:25 PM

Now, this point is important IMO. Here's another shot of the wing details and note the areas I point to. At first, I thought these might be indicative of a cast reproduction wing and what I was looking at was in fact, cast-fill. However, as I look at the rest of the wing, the other traits tell me the wing is not cast at all.

I know from other areas, usually a cast is going to be slightly smaller in physical dimensions, as the cast will shrink slightly when cooling. It also would be slightly lighter in weight. So, with these "fill" areas and lighter weight, my concerns were obvious.

However, at this point, I feel the wing was probably later in production and the "fill" is a result from a dirty die. Thoughts??

This is why I kind of think a more detailed thread on these type specifics might be worthwhile for collectors. However, I do also understand that those that might fake things do get a bit more information as well. Cuts both ways I'm afraid.

Thanks for looking and any comments are greatly appreciated here.

Tim

Attached Images

  • AAF Aerial Gunner Wings f wing details 2.JPG


#36 John Cooper

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 05:24 PM

Tim,

I for one love the macro photos you have posted. Remionds me to consider a camera upgrade for Christmas! This post reminds me of many older posts and I am glad to see someone who wants to discuss the details. As for This being a SMILO wing I think so. YOu are correct that this pattern can be found in the SMILO boxes as well as one other pattern which I also consider SMILO.

I do not recall off the top of my head if I have see "offical" documentation to verify that this pattern is unique to SMILO but I can say from looking at many boxed sets that have an exact matching outline impression in the box seals it for me.

Here are some photos of the two pattens I consider SMILO based on the above experience... I am always open to new information if anyone has some solid infromation.

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  • SMILO_AG.jpg


#37 John Cooper

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 05:25 PM

Here is the reverse shot.

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  • SMILO_AG1.jpg


#38 Wharfmaster

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 06:19 PM

Outstanding Photos Tim (as usual). Wish others would use a black background as you do, always the very best for silver and bronze items.


Regards,


The Wharfmaster

#39 Tim B

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 07:57 PM

Thanks for the additional comments guys, much appreciated and John, thanks for confirming the Dan Smilo & Sons connection here!

On my photos, I am actually using an old Sony Mavica that uses the 3.5 floppy disc. It only has 3.2 megapixels but for some reason, I really like working with it. I guess I am just too cheap to buy something new until it gives out or my laptop's floppy drive insert quits, whichever comes first! :D

Thanks again! More to come as time permits.

Tim

#40 Tim B

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:05 PM

Appreciate the views and comments thus far; please feel free to voice any concerns if there are any, as it's always meant to be a learning thread as well as showing off items.

Now...in this corner, weighing in at a respectable 18.2 grams.... :) Ding! Another Bell.

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  • USAAF Aerial Gunner Wings - Bell.JPG


#41 Tim B

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:07 PM

Same wood grain type of feathering. What a great dark patina! :love: This one is more gunmetal (perfect for a gunner wing) where the pilot above is taking on a reddish brown patina.

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  • USAAF Aerial Gunner Wings - Bell f Wing Details.JPG


#42 Tim B

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:09 PM

Another flat sided catch. These appear to be much more robust in construction when comparing to the standard ball style.

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  • USAAF Aerial Gunner Wings - Bell Catch.JPG


#43 Tim B

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:13 PM

And the same wing notches as the others.

Here's a question for those that know. I have seen other wings recently that have the same notch pattern and appear to have similar feathering but the reverse is different. Did Bell have more than one style of wings?

Tim

Attached Images

  • USAAF Aerial Gunner Wings - Bell  Wing Details 1a.JPG


#44 Tim B

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:45 PM

Wasn't going to use this shot but, it does show the range of patina these have. Now, all I need is a Navigator and Bombardier! ;)

Tim

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  • USAAF Wing Comparisons - Bell.JPG


#45 pfrost

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:32 AM

And the observer wing. And a few other ratings I believe. Trust me, it never ends....

#46 Tim B

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 02:32 PM

God, I'll never be rich!! :lol:

Bought a Powerball and Megamillions ticket for this week. I hardly ever play and there is a good reason for it. Of all the numbers played...not one single number..NOT ONE!! :o :wacko:

#47 Tim B

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 09:31 PM

Just added a nice Bell Bombardier to the group. Again, same dark patina as the gunner.

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  • USAAF Bombardier Wings - Bell.jpg


#48 Tim B

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 09:36 PM

I noticed that the feather detailing is not as crisp on many Bell bombardier and navigator wings when comparing to the pilot, AG, and AC wings. For those that know, is that normal, or dependant on when the piece was actually struck?

Tim

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  • USAAF Bombardier Wings - Bell Wing Details.JPG


#49 Tim B

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 02:38 PM

Thought I would just continue here instead of starting a new thread.

Here's a nice Bell AG that is actually 2-pc construction with lovely patina.

Is there a guess at timelines when the 2-pc badges started appearing? I think the aerial gunner first appeared in 1943 and Bell had the one piece wing (as shown above) initially, so I assume, late war?

Tim

Attached Images

  • AAF Aerial Gunner Wing - Bell 2pc 1.JPG


#50 Tim B

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 02:42 PM

You can see the same typical wing notch pattern as previously discussed. I do see a weaker detailing to the wing feathering as noted on the Bombardier wing above. Searching old threads, I read where Paul thought it might be a different pattern altogether but, are there examples with sharper details?

Attached Images

  • USAAF Aerial Gunner Wing - Bell 2pc f1 2.JPG



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