Chief Petty Officer Combination Cover Anchor Collectors

[Terry K.]

Here are a few I picked up today. I take it two areWW2 and the one looks to have had loops cut off is WW1

 

no markings at all on this one

[PaulR]

Hi Tim,

 

Thanks for posting those amazing anchors. I have a few that came with a uniform set.

 

Well, after a long time of searching, I finally found a first pattern Coast Guard Senior Chief Combo cover anchor!! It came with three medals and some sleeve shields for less than 20 dollars. It is the first insignia I have found in a very long time with the star on the top of the shank!

 

I hope that you like it. I will post more images when it arrives.

[Tim B]

Paul,

 

Very nice! Condition looks to be excellent, congrats!!

 

Tim

[Tim B]

Terry,

 

I've been meaning to add a response to your items posted back in November but never did get around to it, sorry about that. That is a nice looking AE&Co. example. I have noticed that some of these makers placed hallmarks in different locations and have noted another AE&Co. marked under the catch. Not sure if it was indicative of anything or just putting a mark on the item?

 

I thought the example you posted with the cut-off loops was pre-WW1 (SpanAm era?) but others may know better than I.

 

Tim

[Tim B]

I've been meaning to add a few more here, just takes time to sit down and actually get the PIC's done.

 

Here's another WW2 example, this one by Amico, marked 1/20th 10K gold on sterling. Has a really nice three-dimensional look to it with the pointed center fluke. PIC's don't do it justice as its near mint condition.

 

Close up of the hallmark:

 

[Tim B]

I am still kicking around with the timeline of these slanted "N" vs horizontal arc versions discussed back around post # 107. Was looking at the chart previously referenced and noted a couple of items that got me thinking more here.

 

First, I notice that the chart does not really show any devices for WW2 (red arrow). They show pre-war and post-war but nothing specific to war time. I wonder if it was because of the numerous manufacturer variations or, if they were unsure exactly what styles came first and with lack of actual printed directives or instructions, they put together the chart based on the information they had gathered from different sources?

 

The other thing that caught my eye was in paragraph five. They state that the anchor was worn slightly inclined during the first 40 years but, I wonder if that concept carried on for a longer period and into WW2. With lack of detailed information, do you think its possible that manufacturers continued to design and produce the devices with the intent they would still be worn slightly inclined?

[Tim B]

Here's a composite of a few anchors and I put them slanted so as the lettering would actually be somewhat straight. What I am trying to get at here is, if the past or current regulations called for the anchor to be worn slanted and nothing new came out officially, then wouldn't the manufacturers continue to produce their items based on what they knew?

 

[Tim B]

That still doesn't answer why we see some examples utilizing the fouled cable (wire) post '42, but perhaps certain manufacturers didn't get the memo!

 

Here's another example, marked Gemsco, and acid test. I believe the "acid test" was just a mark used to say the check was made for gold/metal content. As it has the chain and pin, I would place it post '42 but prior to 1947. I tend to think, as the design now has the anchor lettering symetrically placed and the anchor is straight up, this design came out shortly prior to when they decided to have the lettering in a horizontal straight line. Any thoughts?

 

Close ups of the hallmark

 

and the metal content marking:

[Patchcollector]

Nice stuff!My Dad was a CPO and I've never really studied the different types.I'm going to have to get out his uniforms and take another look to see what version he wore.

[Terry K.]

Hi Tim,

 

Thanks for your comments.

 

I agree with you that it is pre-WW1 and your idea about the anchors being worn slanted putting the USN level.

 

Her is a couple of pics of Navy men with a CPO. His is on straight up and down, at least it looks that way to me. Dated and named on back. 12/20/43

[Tim B]

Hi Terry,

 

I can't tell by the small PIC's, but is the anchor with the slanted style N or the horizontal arc?

 

You bring up a valid check though, we should take a look at several period photos to see if any patterns come to light. Time permitting, I will try to check through some old "All Hands" issues to see if anything is called out.

 

Tim

[TreasureHunter]

 

 

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[Tim B]

Do either of these two have any hallmarks?

 

I ask, as I have a horizontal arc pinback version that has that same small indentation towards the bottom. I initially thought it might be where the catch was supposed to be soldered but, the shape is kind of unusual.

 

Tim

[TreasureHunter]

No marks, the arrows are pointing to hollow spots, but the bottom one has acid test gemsco on the anchor shank & the text is interrupted by the post. Thanks

[Tim B]

Interesting. I do see a lot of examples where a manufacturer placed their markings in different locations and my marked Gemsco posted previously does come very close to the unmarked one I am referring to. Could be just a case of mounting hardware differently. Here's mine with that lower indentation.

 

The general workmanship of soldering the hardware is inferior to others I've seen thus far. At first, I thought it was repaired but upon closer inspection, it appears it's more a case of just poor soldering, evidenced by the other dark solder points.

[Tim B]

The Chief's anchor was sewn to the cap from 1897 until around 1920 which makes this one old and fairly rare.

 

Hi Ben,

 

Quoting an older post here, was there a reference somewhere that stated these were in fact sew-ons until circa 1920?

 

I ask, as I was browsing through the 1905 and 1913 Navy Uniform Regulations and did not read anything on the actual form of attachment. The only thing I read in the '05 regs was that the device was made out of metal.

 

One thing that struck my interest was the design shown in the plates and how it closely resembles the style with the hoops, but then I have to ask, would not that same design carry over to the pin version as well?

 

Here's some PIC's from the 1905 regs. I can't enlarge too much without distorting the images and I rotated the cap plate for easier viewing:

[Tim B]

I didn't bother to attach the write up on the white cap, as it was without device until 1913.

 

The '13 Regs does call the device out for the white cap in addition to the blue. For the most part, the 1913 regulations used the same plates as the '05 regs but did not use all the plates previously shown in the '05 regs.

 

Here's an excerpt from the '05 version discussing the blue cap for CPO's:

[Tim B]

That got me wondering if these slightly smaller versions with the USN in the center of the anchor might in fact be pre-WW1, say circa early 1900's? They certainly are closer in design to the type with the two hoops and use that same type fouling. There appears to be a noticable change in design between these and the anchors leading up to WW2 (circa 1920's -'30s) IMO.

 

Tim

[Tim B]

Anyone???

 

Again, I do think this design carried over into WW1 and perhaps post-war but I would like to hear other's opinions on when they may have first started. CPO's already in service at the start of WW1 realistically kept their original anchors.

 

Here's a shot of the reverse, note the brass attaching pin and soldering.

[Tim B]

Here's an interesting one. Clearly an earlier version, but note the silver rope fouling and round stock "C" style catch. Thoughts on where this one falls in? Perhaps a transition era piece?

 

The catch and soldering of the rope.

[moorerr]

Hello All,

 

I know this is an old thread but hopefully someone out there may still be watching. I am also looking for one of the 1893 "button" style CPO Insignia's. Does anyone happen to have one availalbe or any good recent insight to where I can get one for my collection? I have pretty much hit up every Militaria shop I can find and have had no luck. Thank you all

 

- Active Duty ISC

[moorerr]

All,

 

A question to the group. What are thoughts on cleaning your anchors? Several examples I have a quite dirty. I do not want to sacrafice patina but would like to give them a light clenaing. I have heard taking them to a jeweller and having them ultrasonically cleaned is a good route to take. Thoughts Suggestions?

[TreasureHunter]

 

 

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[holdaas]

Tim,

Sorry for the delayed response, I'm deployed and don't check this website as often. I have seen the "shanks" referenced on the NHHC website in multiple locations. I'm trying to find a copy of "Navy Department Circular #79, dated June 12, 1897", it addressed the change from the disk device to the anchor and may have the answers you're looking for.

 

Ben

[Tim B]

Hi Ben,

 

Ha ~ Been there, done that! Stay safe where ever you are.

 

I'll try to see if I can't find that circular but, 1897...