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#1 Allan H.

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 10:33 AM

Here's an interesting ribbon group that I have had for some time. I WISH I knew who the grouping belonged to. This is supposed to have come out of a tailor's shop near Washington, D.C. Obviously, the devices such as stars and oakleaf clusters haven't been added as the ribbons were never sewn to a uniform.
I would have ID'd the place of manufacture as being Korea if it didn't have the Washington tailor's attribution. I really like these hand embroidered ribbons.
I am also unclear as to whether this was intended for wear on a Navy officer's uniform or on Army dress blues. If Navy, I would guess a submariner. If Army, I would guess that the MOH was awarded for heroism in Korea. as there is an NDSM ribbon in the group, I would assume that the grouping dates to the early 1960's.
Any ideas?
Allan

Attached Images

  • MOH.jpg


#2 Brig

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 10:37 AM

that's a fantastic sewn-ribbon grouping! first I've seen of the tailor made variety

#3 Brig

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 10:40 AM

as for the tailor, I think you refer to Biasay (sp?), a little shop outside Quantico (near DC), who did custom ribbon and mounting jobs before they went under in the 80s. They created unofficial non-issue items such as replacement MOH lapel pins, etc

#4 GERMAN-PATCH-HUNTER

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 10:53 AM

Here's an interesting ribbon group that I have had for some time. I WISH I knew who the grouping belonged to. This is supposed to have come out of a tailor's shop near Washington, D.C. Obviously, the devices such as stars and oakleaf clusters haven't been added as the ribbons were never sewn to a uniform.
I would have ID'd the place of manufacture as being Korea if it didn't have the Washington tailor's attribution. I really like these hand embroidered ribbons.
I am also unclear as to whether this was intended for wear on a Navy officer's uniform or on Army dress blues. If Navy, I would guess a submariner. If Army, I would guess that the MOH was awarded for heroism in Korea. as there is an NDSM ribbon in the group, I would assume that the grouping dates to the early 1960's.
Any ideas?
Allan

i have seen an stitchery here in germany that makes exactly these style i have some from them but not with moh
can you show the backside?

#5 Allan H.

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 05:10 PM

i have seen an stitchery here in germany that makes exactly these style i have some from them but not with moh
can you show the backside?



Here you go!

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#6 KurtA

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 07:06 PM

Allan-
With no Asiatic Pacific ribbon and all those valor awards, I'm thinking Army rather than Navy.
Really nice rack!
Kurt

#7 USMCR79

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Posted 18 February 2008 - 07:32 PM

No Good Conduct either...I think it was a WWII ETO Officer who received the MOH in the ETO.....Maybe comparing a MOH list against a 1959 or 60 Army register. No Armed Forces Reserve Medal either....I think he was Regular Army and came in before 1941 (No American Defense)

Bill

#8 Allan H.

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Posted 18 February 2008 - 07:59 PM

No Good Conduct either...I think it was a WWII ETO Officer who received the MOH in the ETO.....Maybe comparing a MOH list against a 1959 or 60 Army register. No Armed Forces Reserve Medal either....I think he was Regular Army and came in before 1941 (No American Defense)

Bill


Bill,
I think you meant that he came in AFTER 1941 which I believe would rule him out as a USMA graduate as IIRC, the West Point cadets were entitled to the AM DEF if they were at the academy when Pearl Harbor was bombed. This would exclude all classes prior to the class of 1945.

I also believe that the owner would have been awarded the MOH in Korea because if he had received the medal in WWII, the army would have never allowed a certified war hero to be placed back in harm's way in Korea.

The fact that there is a National Defense ribbon in the group makes it apparant that he was still serving after the Korean war was over.

Allan

#9 Brig

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Posted 18 February 2008 - 09:02 PM

Bill,
I think you meant that he came in AFTER 1941 which I believe would rule him out as a USMA graduate as IIRC, the West Point cadets were entitled to the AM DEF if they were at the academy when Pearl Harbor was bombed. This would exclude all classes prior to the class of 1945.

I also believe that the owner would have been awarded the MOH in Korea because if he had received the medal in WWII, the army would have never allowed a certified war hero to be placed back in harm's way in Korea.

The fact that there is a National Defense ribbon in the group makes it apparant that he was still serving after the Korean war was over.

Allan

there's a few cases of multiple MOH recipients...2 Marines, I don't know about the other services...sent back in harm's way

#10 Allan H.

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Posted 19 February 2008 - 03:42 AM

there's a few cases of multiple MOH recipients...2 Marines, I don't know about the other services...sent back in harm's way


Brig,
That is accurate for the time period when those men received a second MOH- like Daley, and there are examples of tough men who wouldn't leave the battlefield like Chesty Puller and his FIVE Navy Crosses. However, in the modern era, I believe you would be hard pressed to find a MOH recipient finding his way back to the battlefield- esp. for a police action like Korea. THere would just be too much negative publicity if one of these heroes were to fall in battle, be captured, etc. Imagine the field day that a Psychological Warfare team could have with such an incident.
In WWII, especially late in the war, when a man was being considered for such an award, he was quickly hurried back from the front. It was just too big of a news nightmare to report that the newest MOH recipient was killed in a subsequent act- much like the case of LTC Cole and the 101st. If Cole had been exhibiting bravery during the Bulge rather than Normandy, he would have been removed from harm's way and would have lived to see the medal placed around his neck.
Men who die doing brave deeds can be lifted up to the public as heroes making the ultimate sacrifice. Heroes dying after being declared heroes tends to embarrass the establishment for not protecting what becomes a National Treasure.
That's why I REALLY think that MOH has to have been awarded for Korea.
Allan

#11 KurtA

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Posted 19 February 2008 - 07:30 AM

Allan-
The military certainly frowns on sending a MOH winner back into combat, but it certainly does happen. Several months ago, I had the privilege of attending a talk by Vietnam War MOH winner Jack Jacobs. He served two tours in Vietnam. He was awarded the MOH for during his first tour in 1969. He served a second tour in 1972 as an advisor to an RVN airborne unit (about as into "Harms Way" as you could get) and was awarded his second Purple Heart and second Silver Star during that tour. Prior to serving his second tour in Vietnam, the Army did not want to send him there, but he percerviered and ultimately was assigned again to Vietnam.
Two bad battle stars were never added to the WW2 and Korean Service Medals in your ribbon grouping. That may have provided a clue. If he had been awarded an MOH in WW2, this officer could have been sent to Korea in the capacity of a low key staff job, where he would have qualified for the Korean Service Medal without any battle stars.
I think the fact that your guy served in both WW2 and Korea, had other valor awards and was probably an officer makes identifying him very possible.
Kurt

Edited by KurtA, 19 February 2008 - 07:32 AM.


#12 GERMAN-PATCH-HUNTER

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Posted 19 February 2008 - 01:13 PM

ok here are the german made items all out from an stitchery
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#13 GERMAN-PATCH-HUNTER

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Posted 19 February 2008 - 01:13 PM

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#14 ItemCo16527

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Posted 19 February 2008 - 08:20 PM

Allan-
The military certainly frowns on sending a MOH winner back into combat, but it certainly does happen. Several months ago, I had the privilege of attending a talk by Vietnam War MOH winner Jack Jacobs. He served two tours in Vietnam. He was awarded the MOH for during his first tour in 1969. He served a second tour in 1972 as an advisor to an RVN airborne unit (about as into "Harms Way" as you could get) and was awarded his second Purple Heart and second Silver Star during that tour. Prior to serving his second tour in Vietnam, the Army did not want to send him there, but he percerviered and ultimately was assigned again to Vietnam.
Two bad battle stars were never added to the WW2 and Korean Service Medals in your ribbon grouping. That may have provided a clue. If he had been awarded an MOH in WW2, this officer could have been sent to Korea in the capacity of a low key staff job, where he would have qualified for the Korean Service Medal without any battle stars.
I think the fact that your guy served in both WW2 and Korea, had other valor awards and was probably an officer makes identifying him very possible.
Kurt

Can't forget Joe Hooper and David Dolby. Both earned the MoH on their first tours in Vietnam, and both went back for second tours.

#15 Mark M

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Posted 04 September 2009 - 06:53 PM

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